Allow folders in Pages

Idea created by Beck Hasti on Nov 11, 2016

Comment • 303

Open for Voting

Score1632

+1699 more

Greetings all.
Conversations in the community unthread after 100 comments, making the conversation difficult to follow, and official comments hard to find. For this reason we're posting our most recent update here:

We know this is an important topic to many. We appreciate all of the use cases (pros/cons) that have been presented and the ideas for solutions. We are working toward a longer range strategy that we envision solving many of the struggles you've expressed here. We do not have an immediate solution. Stay plugged into Canvas Studio to watch this strategy unfold (beginning with Assignments 2.0)

The Files section of Canvas allows folders for organizing files. Pages does not. Why the awful inconsistency in the user interface? I currently have 30+ pages that I've created in - all in flat directory structure. I'd like to be able to organize them, you know, like Files and stuff I have on my computer.

This idea was considered when developing our product plan for Q1 2019 and is not expected to influence development within Canvas at this time.
This idea will remain open for vote.
If this idea is in the top 10% by vote next cycle it will be reconsidered.
Read more about the feature idea process:
Adaptation: Feature Idea Process Changes
How does the feature idea process work in the Canvas Community?
What is the feature development process for Canvas?

303 Comments

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Laura Gibbs @ Ron Marx on Sep 27, 2018 12:54 PM
I share your impression, Ron Marx! I'm honestly not sure how this whole process really works in terms of actual implementation. I still feel very let down about the lack of any progress on search; when I attended Project Khaki, search was the only idea among the Khaki array that I had any interest in at all personally. So, when search was one of the features "postponed" without any progress I was disappointed. I was even more disappointed when there was no detailed explanation provided about partial progress, roadblocks, etc. That's when I started to suspect that the ultimate design decisions at Instructure are pretty far removed from the issues as I see them and which drive the decisions I make about which tools to use.

As a result, Canvas is a tool with only very limited value for me, exactly because my priorities are simply not the Instructure priorities. I suspect that will remain the case even after they finally get done with the mammoth amount of resources being devoted to quizzes, grades, and analytics, none of which have any value for me personally in terms of my course design.
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Gideon Williams Sep 27, 2018 2:23 PM
As a number of colleagues have already mentioned, I would like to see features like these added. Educators can then CHOOSE whether to use them or not. This is how I would like to see a VLE work. I struggle to understand why this cannot be the case for every idea. If you don't want to have folders or sub modules or pages linked to sections then don't have them but the fact that so many people make the requests must surely be telling the leadership something?

If leadership are making the decisions then lets have greater transparency with the whole idea/voting system. What is the purpose of creating an idea and then voting for it. If votes don't count then remove them. I am sure that I am not alone to see some ideas implemented with minimal votes whilst others remain unresolved with huge numbers. Like Laura, I thought idea workshops like Project Khaki were attempts to listen more to pedagogy and how the platform can support this. I am also not quite sure how the leadership can make unilateral decisions about a platform that is used by such a diverse range of users from age 5 to 25 across so many different countries each with their own education system. Is there any form of representation (across these different education stages) to the Canvas Development Leadership?

Two things that drive me to distraction that I would like to see Canvas improve upon:
i. Reply to the ideas posted once they reach a certain size. Give people some update as to what is happening. If the idea is not going to happen then say so and shut it down/mothball it. How difficult is this to do? Some popular idea (in terms of votes) have not had comments for 6+ months! (I notice that this is now being addressed although with the same statement being applied for many)
ii. Separate the technical updates eg the colour/format/style changes from those with teaching and learning value. I struggle to get enthused by a brand change or repositioning of an icon when what I want to see is embedding of Office365 in pages or links made by the External URL feature go directly to that website and not a redirect page! How about a separate section where they address those ones? Perhaps this is/was Project Khaki after all?
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Laura Gibbs @ Gideon Williams on Sep 29, 2018 5:01 PM
I definitely agree about CHOICE, Gideon Williams: choice is one of the main principles that I use in designing my own courses (students choose when to do assignment, what assignments to do, what tools to use, etc.), and I expect to be able to do the same when using the VLE/LMS.

And I should say that one of the things that really DOES work well for me in Canvas is how easy it is to use it in the minimal way that I do: I like being able to turn off menu items and just do my own thing by embedding, redirect tool, etc. As a result my courses look pretty much the way I would like them to look, which was never true with our old LMS (D2L). Plus, I can SHARE my courses, showing others exactly what I am doing. D2L did not have open course options at all.

This distinction about sameness versus choosing is one I know they debate at Instructure. I remember a pretty intense debate here about an idea feature request to allow instructors to turn the hypothetical grading feature on or off -- I definitely think instructors should be able to turn any feature on or off, especially anything related to grading given how emotionally loaded grading can be for both teachers and students. But there was a very large chorus of people insisting that it was really important to have consistency across all courses, so I think the idea got voted down. Anyway, I voted up on the option to let instructors turn that on or off if they wanted... although what I honestly would have preferred was letting students decide whether to use the feature or not, as opposed to the teacher just turning it off for all.

Anyway: CHOICE.

Especially STUDENT CHOICE.

I'm a believer. :-)
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David Eveland @ Ron Marx on Sep 28, 2018 9:05 PM
I've heard other LMSs have this feature, where they can allow instructors to add files or even whole folder references to to the pages or layout on the page rather than having to rely on a file structure. It could really help with the use of pages by faculty.
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Peter Hess Oct 1, 2018 8:28 AM
And while you're at it, could you include a way to delete multiple pages - including a whole folder - at one time?
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Stefanie Sanders @ Peter Hess on Oct 1, 2018 9:23 AM
Peter, that would be a separate development initiative, and you'll find that at Delete multiple pages
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Rob Ditto @ David Eveland on Oct 1, 2018 4:50 PM
David, you may be interested in this feature idea:
- Drag and drop files into course modules and assignment edit windows
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Kirsty Elson Oct 8, 2018 8:13 AM
I used to manage an Episerver CMS for a website, and this is a similar set up essentially, so having a pages hierarchy even like on a website would mean a more logical way of accessing content and the files within
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Benjamin Rodriguez Oct 8, 2018 3:32 PM
Hi all,

I think that the arguments presented on this idea, both for and against, are valid. I am one of the few who voted no. That's because I believe that a folder structure in Pages can get messy pretty quickly for these reasons:
- While it think it would benefit designers, not all instructors are savvy with using a folder structure to organize website pages.
- It's a potential point of confusion between files, pages, and modules.
- It can take away Canvas' clean and flat presentation system which, IMO, is one of its most appealing features.
- Slippery slope to a feature of folders IN actual page objects which can make Canvas too similar to other LMS systems.
Here's an example of how I use a prefix to organize pages. Some might say it's aesthetically unappealing for a page title, but I think it's fine in the context of an course:
That being said, I do think it would be worthwhile to have these potential organizational features built into Pages:
- Pagination,
- Categories,
- Tags,
- Search by author, title, keyword, and the aforementioned category and tag.
- New column to indicate which Module(s) they correspond with.
Best regards,

-Ben
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Laura Gibbs @ Benjamin Rodriguez on Oct 8, 2018 3:52 PM
Your system would be greatly enhanced if another feature were put into play, allowing people to rename Pages later on to enhance those organizational features. But right now, you rename Pages at your peril.
I would prefer to see ALL these options: folders, tags, search, etc.
But if we are only going to get one, folders is better than nothing.
The apparent total lack of progress on search makes me think that is not coming anytime soon.
And the lack of tagging in Canvas already makes me dubious that we will see a tagging solution.
But since there are folders in the files area, and somehow that has not produced an apocalypse, I am guessing the world will not come to an end if/when there are finally folders for pages too. :-)
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Beck Hasti @ Benjamin Rodriguez on Oct 15, 2018 2:40 PM
Of course there's still the issue that not all of the pages load at once, so if you find yourself needing to find a page that come near the end in display order, you are stuck waiting (and waiting and waiting and sometimes having to give up waiting) for more pages to load each and every time you want to edit/update the page (I, for example, unfortunately named a page "Weekly Schedule").

How about this: since Canvas is big on giving admins permissions to turn on or off features for their entire institution: why not make allowing folders in pages something admins can decide. That way, if the admins think the instructors at their institution are too "unsavvy" to use folders in Canvas "responsibly", they can disable it for their institution (or maybe even on an instructor by instructor basis).

It seems to me that if you think folders are so bad, you should educate your instructors why they shouldn't use them in web design. But why deny those of us who have legitimate organizational needs to have something that is fundamental to every computer-based organizational system.

I mean, Canvas is supposed to be an LMS not an LS.
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Ron Marx @ Beck Hasti on Oct 9, 2018 7:18 AM
I appreciate your advocacy as much as I, and a thousand-plus others, like the Allow folders in Pages idea.
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Benjamin Rodriguez @ Laura Gibbs on Oct 9, 2018 1:30 PM
Hi Laura Gibbs,
I agree, you should totally be able to rename pages, or any other object, on the fly. It would be great if there were an identifier that links pointed to rather than the name of the object.

-Ben
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Laura Gibbs @ Benjamin Rodriguez on Oct 9, 2018 1:38 PM
it's a feature request too! :-)
Update ALL links when Page name changes
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Benjamin Rodriguez @ Beck Hasti on Oct 16, 2018 12:13 PM
Dear Beck Hasti,

The option to turn that organizational feature on or off isn't a bad idea.

Best regards,

-Ben
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Benjamin Rodriguez @ Laura Gibbs on Oct 9, 2018 1:44 PM
Laura, I up-voted that. Thanks!
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Garrett Williams @ Benjamin Rodriguez on Oct 31, 2018 8:15 AM
I agree with Ben. Folders can be problematic. They can be very cumbersome to navigate. One thing I noticed is that sometimes there are loading lags with Pages as well. You could, however, add groups similar to the assignments section. I think SEARCH needs to be a part of this as well. Feature parity with the Assignments page would be a good start. Grouping and searching in the Assignment section of Canvas makes it very useful. Why not add it to other sections of the course like Pages.
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Laura Gibbs @ Garrett Williams on Oct 31, 2018 10:02 AM
Search would be great, but don't hold your breath. Despite the commitment at Project Khaki, the global search has been indefinitely postponed. I kept hoping they would commit to some smaller search project (search in Pages, search in Discussion, etc.), but nothing has been forthcoming since the announcement at InstructureCon that global search is indefinitely postponed.

Having search would definitely obviate the need for folders, although there are still some real advantages to folders/labels. In both GoogleDocs and Gmail, I rely both on search and on labels/folders, and if people do want to do serious content development in Canvas Pages (a mistake IMO, but that's a separate discussion), then I think they need both folders and search to make that work.
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Nicholas Jones @ Laura Gibbs on Nov 5, 2018 11:32 AM
First, wow this topic is still generating discussion!
Second, I heard you on the Teaching in Higher Ed podcast recently, which was really neat! Its great to be able to put a voice to the text now. You've referred to the problems with content development in Canvas, but could you point me to where I could learn more information on your perspective? I understand if you don't want to elaborate on that here (like you said, its really a separate conversation), but if you've written/talked about it somewhere else, then I'd love to be pointed in that direction.
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Laura Gibbs @ Nicholas Jones on Nov 5, 2018 11:49 AM
I had so much fun doing that with Bonni, Nicholas Jones ... she and I met in person for the first time ever at InstructureCon this summer!

About content, it's nothing complicated:
1. I create too much content to manage in Canvas; I need real tools like Google tools to manage my content.
2. I want to use the same content creation-and-sharing tools side by side with my students; they use Google tools, and I do too.
3. I don't believe in content inside the LMS; I prefer to create and share on the open Internet (unless there are copyright restrictions that require otherwise). That's both a philosophical and a practical matter.

Here's how I explain this to students since they are sometimes surprised by my LMS-minimalist approach since the classes I teach are 100% online:
Online Course Wiki / Tools
(that is one of our Orientation Week assignments)

That PBWiki is starting to show its age, but I've used it a long time, throughout three, count 'em, three different LMS regimes at my school. I'm debating about whether it is worth migrating that PBWiki content to another platform. Since my school is in the process of layoffs right now and I suspect I might be laid off after next year, I'm taking a wait-and-see approach on a big time investment like that. The content management features at that wiki are the kind of thing that I think Canvas Pages could/should aspire to... and as I said, that wiki platform is ancient; they've had these features for 10 years or so. It's not rocket science.
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Heather Patterson Nov 13, 2018 10:40 AM
Our training tells us to "hide" as many items from students as possible. So I had originally hid files. But then since I need them to be able to download 30+ .abi files (sequencing results), and the easiest way is to have them download the whole folder, I had to open files back up. Please!!!!! make this an option, its part of best practices.
Thank you!
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Benjamin Rodriguez @ Heather Patterson on Nov 13, 2018 6:50 PM
Hi Heather Patterson,

Why not have the students DL a zip file if you need them to pull so many files at once? This way you can still keep that files link hidden.

Ben
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Neal Shebeck @ Benjamin Rodriguez on Nov 14, 2018 10:38 AM
Or reveal Files but lock the folders of files you don't want them to access?
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Timothy Lampley Nov 14, 2018 10:41 AM
Greetings!

This is a noteworthy idea. In fact, it wouldn't be a poor idea to incorporate files within Modules, as this would better accommodate storage of materials--for a single course, i.e. Math100, into a development shell (for increased manageability by instructors and admins).
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Ron Marx @ Timothy Lampley on Nov 14, 2018 10:53 AM
I think you meant folders within Modules, right?
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