Average grades?

[RobertBuchanan]

Why isn't there an obvious option to have the grade center average the grades from a certain group of assignments. I'm told that this isn't an option in Canvas, and I find that ridiculous. The overall grade for the class in question is partially-derived by an average of test scores, and the Canvas IT dude at my college says it's impossible. WTF? Canvas can't average grades? What kind of **not right** program is this? Maybe the option is available, but it's impossible to figure out how to do it. Canvas absolutely sucks.

🔎 This idea has been archived. While this idea isn't open for comments, it is an important part of Instructure’s idea conversations and development process. Contributions like this are valuable as Instructure prioritizes work on new or existing features.

[KristinL]

Hi @RobertBuchanan -

I'm sorry you are frustrated with the grades process. Could you tell a little more about what you're trying to accomplish or where you'd like to see the average grades? I feel like you're trying to locate the average score for a group of assignments in a specific category, and while that is possible, I feel I may be missing part of the request.

Could you explain a little more about what you'd like to see? I may be able to help you and your site admin/support with some resources or help you define the idea a little more clearly. I look forward to collaborating with you!

[RobertBuchanan]

I need the average score of 10 block exams to determine the student's overall grade in the class.

I was instructed to create Assignments to house said exams. I need a way for Canvas to calculate this average. I'm hoping there's a way to do this. I was told by the UNM IT support folks that it was not possible. It was very easy in Blackboard. Any help is greatly appreciated. I look forward to hearing from you.

-Rob

[KristinL]

Hi!

If your assessments are all the same point value, the category will create the average. However, if the assessments vary in point value, there is currently no way to do this with Canvas.

Other Community members have requested this as well, and those ideas are open for conversation. If one of these aligns with your vision, I will merge this thread into the one of your choice. This will build continuity for the community members seeking to contribute to conversations. 🙂 

• Assignments within weighted groups treated with equal value regardless of points.
• Assignment weighting in assignment groups. 

[RobertBuchanan]

I'm happy to know that what I'm requesting is possible. I need to know how to do it. I have 10 exams. Each has been added as an assignment under the test heading, as I was instructed to do. I need a single column in the grade center that displays the average of said exams. All exams have the same value. How is this done?

[KristinL]

Hi @RobertBuchanan -

I think these articles will help you accomplish what you need. The "exams" would need to be in their own assignment group. Then, in the Gradebook, the total from each group would be listed separately, alongside the overall course grade.

How do I add an assignment group in a course? 

How do I weight the final course grade based on assignment groups? 

How do I use the Total column in the Gradebook? 

[RobertBuchanan]

Kristin, I appreciate your attempts to help, but I feel like I'm not able to get through to you. I need the AVERAGE of the exams, not the total score. The class grade is partially-derived from the AVERAGE of the tests. I can see the total just fine, but there is no obvious option to task the program with AVERAGING the scores. I'd really love to just talk with you on the phone, as it seems like I'm not able to help you understand what I need via text. Again, I've already assigned the tests into a group (the test group). I need the AVERAGE of said test scores. I'm not sure how else to make that clear. Before, with Blackboard, students were able to see the AVERAGE of their test scores in a dedicated column, as well as see their total grade for the entire class, as partially derived by the AVERAGE of their test scores. It's not a big ask. Instructors use AVERAGES very commonly, and I find it alarming that Canvas can't do it. I'm worried about what else you guys left out.

[KristinL]

Hi -

I apologize that we're not arriving at your needed solution. I'm doing my best to understand your use case while exploring options that are in place. I appreciate your willingness to exchange messages and share more about your course structure.

From your last message, I understand you need the average of the tests in the category itself. This would be "summarized" in a single column. I did a little more searching, and I found another Idea. If Weight all items in a category equally/calculate average percent instead of average points summarizes what you need to make your gradebook work as you'd like, I will open the conversation back up for collaboration within the Instructure Community.

If this proposal doesn't match, I will open this thread for conversation. Though, having an Open status on a thread is not a promise for development. However, it will be reviewed by our Product Team as they look into developing projects in upcoming quarters.What is the feature development process for Instructure products? 

[RobertBuchanan]

I still need to know how to average the grades. Please, isn't there someone I could actually speak to? This is the sixth time I've reached out to you, and I still have no answers. Your last response seems to imply that what I'm asking is not currently possible with Canvas and that I should attempt to vote on whether Canvas should, in fact, be able to do the task I need. 

I need to know the following:

Can Canvas produce and record the average score for ten equally-weighted exams?

Yes or no.

If Canvas can do the above, HOW DO I DO IT? 

I'm not sure how to be more clear. The classes in question start in a week. I will have to change the grading structure if Canvas cannot do the above.

It seems to me that the folks at Canvas were too distracted by making sure their program could accomplish advanced tasks, to ensure that their program could accomplish fundamental tasks (which it cannot).

I have no other recourse as the IT personnel at my college have told me that the task in question is not possible. Meanwhile, you seem incapable of knowing whether it is possible or how to do it if it is possible. I can't believe your program cannot simply produce averages of scores. That is a common part of grading. 

I need help.

[RobertBuchanan]

At this point, or at any point, it would be incredibly helpful if you just let me know that Canvas cannot do what I need it to do. I'm not interested in voting for future features of the program that should have existed from the get-go, nor do I have the time to do so.

[KristinL]

Hi @RobertBuchanan -

At this time, Canvas cannot calculate grades by creating a single average percentage for all activities in an assignment group. Canvas Support may be able to describe why this is the case in more detail, and you're welcome to contact them. While the Community is a branch of support, the Support Agents have a greater understanding of features' details and configuration.  How do I contact Canvas Support? 

I suggested the Idea threads as the voting process is the best way to bring proposals to the Product Team for future additions. Since you shared that you are not interested in participating in the Idea Conversations process, I've marked this Idea Conversation thread as Archived. 

[Rbuchanan666]

Gee, thanks, Kristin! It only took you seven messages and three weeks to finally come clean as to the fact that Canvas cannot do fundamental things. I really appreciate the absolute waste of time. I wonder why you refused to tell me that initially? Could it be that you’re embarrassed about the worthless program you represent? Your concern for customers’ experience is as lacking as the program itself. Well, at least y’all have a cohesive theme over there: wall-to-wall **bleep**. Thanks for absolutely nothing.

[Renee_Carney]

@Rbuchanan666 
I'm sorry for your frustration, but your last comment here is unacceptable and not tolerated in this Community.  We have very simple Community guidelines and we expect everyone to follow them. 

I'm also sorry the gradebook does not do the exact calculation you expect it to do.  I've worked with Canvas for 11 years now and I can tell you that seeking to understand the individual grading nuances for every instructor is one of the most difficult things I did as an Admin, so Kristin's questions are exactly the questions I would have needed to walk you through. Our support team would have asked you the same questions as well. It's just as frustrating for us as it is for you - we all want to understand quickly so we can help you be successful. 

We do have our Panda Pros session running right now if you'd like to sign up for a 1:1 consulting session for free. I'd highly encourage you to schedule some time. Sitting down and looking at your gradebook with you is something they'd be able to do.

[Rbuchanan666]

As is the theme with Canvas, none of that solves my problem. I’m insulted that you claim to be as frustrated as I am. You don’t have to struggle with an ineffective program or it’s inept representatives like I do. You don’t have to restructure your entire class to accommodate said worthless program like I do. You don’t have to explain to students that they can’t see a running score because the program in question is trash, like I do. I’m not interested in voting for features that should have been included initially and I find your repeated suggestions to do so insulting and out-of-touch. I’m terrified to know what else you’ve left out. I’ve wasted the better part of a month struggling with you and your utterly terrible program. I don’t intend to waste another instant. That said, do not contact me again.

[chriscas]

I'm going to attach a screenshot here, showing 10 assignments (or exams, doesn't matter) put into an assignment group. The assignment group column in the gradebook is essentially an average of the assignments in the group (total points earned divided by the total points possible).  The total column does just show a percentage score, so if you're looking for average points, you'd would need to multiply the percentage by the points.  This does assume that your assignments are all the same point value, which I haven't quite been able to determine is the case in your course or not.

[hesspe]

| This does assume that your assignments are all the same point value,

If I understand this right, that would be the issue.  If you have a 10 point assignment and a 20 point assignment and you want them to have equal weight in the average, seems to me you'd need to spreadsheet it.  For example, with a score of 7 on the first and 16 on the second (70% and 80% respectively), the average point value is 11.5. 11.5/15=.733 (15 being the average of the total points.)  If you reverse it - a score of 8 on the first and 14 on the second - the average is now 11 or  11/15=.7666, because the 20 point assignment carries more weight.  .733 and .766 are the same numbers the gradebook would show in the Assignment Group column for the grades in the example.

[chriscas]

@hesspe,

You're exactly right (to my understanding), if the point values of each of the 10 assignments is different.  I know the original question was how to show an average of scores, which if the assignments are different I don't think is possible, but if the aim is to have students see the correct overall grade, there is a (messy, i'll admit) workaround.  Let's say these 10 assignments should account for 20% of the overall grade, but all be counted equally.  Instead of having the assignment group weighted at 20% and all the assignments put in there (which won't work because of the point value differences), one could create 10 assignment groups, each worth 2% (20%/10 assignments), and each of those assignment groups having just one assignment.  It's going to add a lot of extra columns to the gradebook, but the calculations would all be correct at least.

I have gotten the request to treat different point-value assignments equally within a group too, so I do agree there is a need that it would be nice for Canvas to fulfill there.  If the issue is ever addressed, I'd assume it would only work when weighing is turned on, as without weights, the Canvas gradebook works by point accumulation and it wouldn't know how many points to count each of the equalized assignments as.  Just an observation that while the request makes total sense, there are some complications with it as well.  With the number of existing users of Canvas, I doubt the gradebook would see a huge overhaul of the underlying assumptions at this point, as that would probably generate as many of more complaints as the number of people who would be happy with the change.  This is just my personal opinion as a Canvas admin at a public university though, so I could be totally wrong.

-Chris