Be able to take percent off from the point received automatically when late

0 Likes
(1)

I would like to have the option for late assignments to be able to take a certain percent off of the amount of points the student is receiving.  It is currently set up to take off whatever percent off the amount possible. 

For example, if I wanted to take 10% off for each day late and my I gave the student 88 out of 100, the setup currently is that it would subtract 10 points from that per day late so after 1 day that grade would receive a 78 or 2 days a 68 and so on.  I would like to be able to take off 10% from the 88 so in this example it would take off 8.8 per day so after 1 day it would be 79.2 and 2 days 70.4 and so on.

I feel like some teachers that use this probably aren't aware of how it is counting off.  Every teacher I talk to would like it to work the way that I'm asking.

7 Comments
Stef_retired
Instructure Alumni
Instructure Alumni
Status changed to: Moderating

@kyount Thanks for sharing this idea. If I'm following this correctly, it sounds like a student who submits an assignment two days late and for whom you've entered a score of 88/100 would theoretically have a total grade deduction of 16.72 points on the 100-point assignment, as compared to a 20-point deduction under the current system. However, a student who submits an assignment two days late for whom you enter a score of 68, rather than getting the same 20-point deduction, would only see a deduction of 11.92 points. Is my understanding accurate? The goal here is to penalize each student differently for the same number of days late?

kyount
Community Member

The person with an 88 and 2 days late would subtract 20% of 88 instead of 20% of 100 (that would be a subtraction of 17.6). The person with an 68 and 2 days late would subtract 20% of 68 instead of 20% of 100 (that would be a subtraction of 13.6).  The goal is to penalize the percent based off what they got instead of what was possible.

This way the student will get a penalty but not take the grade down quite as fast.   When talking to other teachers at my school they all feel like this should be how it is done instead of the way Canvas currently would calculate. A person getting a 68 calculated how it is currently set up would lose about 15% of their points daily if losing 10% of the original amount possible.
Stef_retired
Instructure Alumni
Instructure Alumni

@kyount Thanks for confirming that the request would result in different penalties for different students even when their submissions are late by the same number of days. We'll move it forward for further discussion.

Stef_retired
Instructure Alumni
Instructure Alumni
Status changed to: Open
 
Stef_retired
Instructure Alumni
Instructure Alumni

@kyount  And for context, here's the documentation around the current functionality: How do I apply a Late Submission policy in the Gra... - Canvas Community 

dawn_nelson
Community Explorer

I would also like to see this functionality, as a separate option to how the late penalty currently works. 

The comment that this policy 'would result in different penalties for different students even when their submissions are late by the same number of days' seems to suggest that this policy might not be fair. And that's... fair enough!  🙂

But, if this is a concern, then it's important to realize that the current policy can also be described in exactly the same way. It also results in 'different penalties for different students even when their submissions are late by the same number of days'. 

Consider a 10-point quiz. Suppose I allow students to turn in the quiz one day late, for a reduction of 50%. Under the current policy, this 50% will be calculated from the total number of points possible on the quiz. Thus, all students will have 5 points removed from their score on the late day.

This means a student who earns all 10 points on the quiz to begin with, will now earn 5 points once the penalty is applied. In other words, this student will lose 50% of the points that they originally earned.

Now consider a student who earns only 5 points on the quiz to begin with. This student will earn zero points once the penalty is applied. In other words, this student will lose 100% of the points that they originally earned.

Thus, students who are performing poorly to begin with will be penalized MORE (in terms of percentages) than students who are performing better. The total point deduction is the same, but the percentage of a student's actual score is different.

Now consider the proposed option. Consider a 10-point quiz. Suppose I allow students to turn in the quiz one day late, but whatever score they earn on the quiz, 50% of that score will be lost.

A student who earns all 10 points on the quiz to begin with will lose 50% of 10, and will now earn 5 points once the penalty is applied. This is the same result as before.

But now, consider the student who earns only 5 points on the quiz to begin with. This student will lose 50% of 5, or 2.5 points. Therefore, they will still earn 2.5 points - as opposed to the current option, where they will earn nothing.

The proposed option doesn’t penalize poorer students as harshly as the current option. Which system is fairer? It all depends on how you look at it.

The proposed option treats all students 'the same', by reducing everyone's eared score by the SAME PERCENTAGE. However, this does end up treating students 'differently', because they all end up losing a different number of points from those that they earned.

The current option treats all students 'the same', by reducing everyone's score by the SAME NUMBER OF POINTS. However, this does end up treating students 'differently', because they all end up losing a different percentage of their earned points.

I want to give poorer students an incentive to try. Under the current system, any students earning less than 5 points on my hypothetical quiz will be demoralized to discover that they lost all credit for the work that they did. Under the proposed system, these students would at least keep some of what they earned.

Now, I know there's currently a way to handle this… sort-of. There's the option of waving the late penalty if a student's score falls below a certain number of points. This is the 'lowest possible grade threshold'. I don’t like this.

First, although it sounds simple, it's confusing to figure out how it works in practice. I had trouble wrapping my head around it to begin with - so good luck getting students to understand it without a lot of explanation. It seems to suggest that a student could theoretically do better by turning an assignment in late, than by turning it in on time. This isn’t true, but I can imagine students thinking it is - without detailed explanation.

Second, talk about treating students differently! This option basically says 'we only penalize better students for being late. If you're a poor student, go ahead and turn work in late - you won’t be penalized for that at all.'

The proposed option doesn't give poor students a 'get out of jail free card' when turning work in late. I believe that the proposed option is easier to understand, and fairer, than the current 'get out of jail free' option.

In any event, I'm not suggesting getting rid of the current options. They should remain. That way, each instructor can decide which option works best for their specific situation - the current one, or the proposed one. No one would be forced to use any particular option.

ProductPanda
Instructure
Instructure
Status changed to: Archived
Comments from Instructure

As part of the new Ideas & Themes process, all ideas in Idea Conversations were reviewed by the Product Team. Any Idea that was associated with an identified theme was moved to the new Idea & Themes space. Any Idea that was not part of the move is being marked as Archived. This will preserve the history of the conversations while also letting Community members know that Instructure will not explore the request at this time.