Create a more simple, intuitive way to offer Extra Credit

[kakanczu]

Currently, if a faculty member utilizes Weighted Groups there is no way to add a percentage of extra credit. For example, this is an example of the setup I would like:

• Test - 50%
• Homework - 30%
• Attendance - 10%
• Participation - 10%
• Extra Credit - 3%

The 3% Extra Credit would make the total 103%. Canvas allows you to create group weights that equal more than 100%. However, if we setup an Extra Credit Assignment within the "Extra Credit" Group it must be worth more than 0 points. If I give more than 0 points it will negatively impact students scores - if they only get a 2/5 or a 5/10 on the extra credit assignment they overall score will be docked.

A workaround is to create an Extra Credit assignment within a Group (an "out of zero" assignment). However this is a mathematical mess:

For example, solve this word problem:

• There are 150 points in the Assignments Group
• The Assignment Group is worth 40% of the total grade
• You would like to create an Extra Credit assignment that adds 3% to the total percentage score of the Assignments Group
• The student currently has 140/150 points, or a 93.33%

The solution to allow, when a Group is created, the opportunity to make that Group "bonus" or "extra credit." Alternatively, you could also all 0 points assignments to be created in an Extra Credit group although I assume there is a reason why this is not allowed now.

[Steven_S]

The key in that model of extra credit is that you treat the assignments normally - not as zero-point assignments, which is what triggers the error message you mentioned.  The reason it works is because the assignment categories add up to more than 100% but the grading scale is still based on 100%

It works; I've tested it.  For example, the instructor assigns 5 extra credit assignments each worth 100 points in a category worth 5% even though he already has other categories that total 100%.  Canvas does not know they are extra credit, and so it treats them the same as every required assignment.  At the end of the course the extra credit in the course will be the average of all 5 assignments weighted as 5% of the total.  This will give a potential total of 105%, but assigning the letter grade is up to the instructor, so you can just stick to a 100% grade scale.

Where it gets tricky is during the semester:

Student 1 does the first extra credit and earns all 100 points... The other 4 are not yet due and so no grades are entered. The gradebook displays that student 1 has an extra credit average of 100%.

Student 1 is happy with that average and does not do the second extra credit.  When a zero is entered after the due date for extra credit 2 the extra credit average drops to 50%.  This is still 50% of a 5% bonus category, but until that zero was entered the student's total was calculated with an extra credit average that gave them the full 5%.  So now their bonus has been cut in half.

Instructor 2 foresees that problem and decides to excuse students from extra credit assignments they do not turn in...

Student 1 is happy because they get the full 5% bonus with only 1 extra credit assignment, but the instructor only intended that assignment to count as 1%.

Student 2 does the first extra credit and earns all 100 points, but unlike student 1 student 2 also turns in extra credit 2.  However their submission for extra credit 2 only earns 30 points.  Even 30% of a bonus assignment should improve grades, but again the student was looking at an average of 100% from the first assignment.  Therefore the new average of 65% feels like they were penalized for turning in extra credit 2, especially when student 1 brags about maintaining their high extra credit average by doing nothing.

That's why I suggest either entering placeholder zeros as the initial grade from the very start, or making an individual category for each extra credit assignment (with individual categories you can excuse students who skip it and the calculations still work).  Either option will cause each of these 5 example assignments to count as the desired 1% bonus.

[Steven_S]

This is not the only idea delayed, and I doubt it is caused by canvas thinking the issue isn't important or that we simply need better training.  (After all, that would mean that they should provide better training materials.)  It is more likely that we, the users, are such a diverse group covering the grading patterns from so many schools and disciplines, that canvas has not yet been able to sort out what form extra credit should take.

Your take-away is still applicable, but so is the reverse:  "seasoned old teachers... from a pre-digital-native contingent" (like me) do not know what is required to make these changes a reality. 

[fwentworth]

Hi Kona,

It would be great to be able to give students extra credit. I like to give students extra points for attending online sessions. I have created assignments for these sessions that don't count toward their grade. At the end of the course before the final grade, can I go back and change the setting so that it these points become part of the final grade calculation?   I have these activities marked as being worth 10 pts. but not counting in grade calculations.  If I change that seeing when all other assignments have been turned in, will it work?  The way it is set now, I can enter points which is a good way for me to keep track of who attended the online sesisons.   

Thank you. 

[Hildi_Pardo]

We are piloting using the Canvas Gradebook exclusively, for a small group of teachers.  They do all their Grading in Canvas, and are exempt from entering every assignment grade in Synergy.   They only have to enter Quarter, Interim, Final Grades in Synergy.

We've had many teachers ask about Extra Credit.   Here is one example:

"Synergy offers a feature that the Canvas gradebook does not: categorizing an assignment as "extra credit" weighting. I wish Canvas had this feature!"

[bsr]

Would you have guessed that we'd still be begging for extra credit functionality as we head into 2020? 

2020. 

Still can't make an assignment extra credit.

But we can get badges, so there's something.

[nsweeten]

 @kaelkanzo ‌ Congratulations. This Extra Credit thread lives on!

Like most everyone who has written, I also believe the best solution lies in Canvas programming extra credit settings on Assignments, as well as Quiz questions and entire Quizzes. 

*That said, your original example can work, and it did work the last time I ran a course like this. (It was only ever one course for a very stubborn Faculty member, but mathematically it worked with our instance of Canvas.)

Keep in mind, this solution is not ideal and it is not something that I typically recommend to faculty, but it will work.  

Your Example 

• Test - 50%
• Homework - 30%
• Attendance - 10%
• Participation - 10%
• Extra Credit - 3%

This is why:

If your grading scale lists 96-100% as an A+

and

you have a course worth 103% 

then

even with point dings for every "graded" extra credit assignment, a student earning 96% will still get an A+. You haven't changed that A+ level. The key is in the overage %.

My best guess is that you cannot mix two different extra credit strategies to outsmart Canvas. 

You can have zero point assignments in a weighted group to add points to an anticipated problem area, like Quizzes.

OR

You can have a whole group labeled Extra Credit with Assignments/normal point values as long as that entire category tops the 100% level. 

Basically, it is hard to explain to students too and therefore totally not worth the hassle. All the more reason for Canvas programming to address extra Credit without workarounds. 

P.s.

True story. I once got a Final Grade total of 146% as a student in a pilot course at a big University. It was set up like this. A 96% would have gotten me an A+. I doubt it is setup like this any more. #@! knows what it does to student ranking and honors?

[Steven_S]

Zero point assignments should be OK in any of those assignment groups.  However, all assignment groups will need at least one assignment assigned some point value.  The extra credit group does not need zero point assignments, because students may earn zero points on a 100 point assignment and the final grade will calculate correctly. 

The key word is 'final'... The final grade will be correct at the end of the course.  However, students will be confused when zeros (or low grades) on extra credit are entered, because their running average will drop.

The solution I use when I use extra credit assignments that are not zero point assignments:  I always set the default grade to zero before the students have earned any grades, send out an explanation by canvas message immediately before I do so, and put the same explanation in the assignment instructions.  I keep it simple by saying that zeros have to be entered in advance for extra credit to be calculated correctly, and that the zero will be replaced with the grade they earn if they choose to complete this optional assignment. With the proactive explanation I have not had much confusion from students. 

[rlorenzs]

Instead of setting up an assignment with "no" points and adding them on without a submission, make it an option to make them bonus points that will be added on to a grade without recreating a different quiz or assignment.

[rlorenzs]

Thanks for the advice. The problem is I already created the assignment as I thought I didn't want it as bonus points. But good to know -- I will integrate a 0-point assignment with a note for future reference.

[mooremath1]

I would love to have the option to select any question as a bonus question and assign points to it. It would be so simple to add a checkbox to questions to assign it as bonus only.

I have even tried to set the assignment to 100 points and then add 110 points worth of questions but then if a student gets 100 points, it actually gives them 90.9% for a grade.

I am a math teach so I understand how everything is calculated but I absolutely cannot understand the reasoning for not allowing bonus without having to set questions to 0 points and then go back in to each and every submission to award the points. It is so inefficient.

[ID_2020]

It would be very helpful to have a category for extra credit that will not impact student score if not complete, but add to final score if it does get completed. I understand there is a 0 point, no submission. .... option, however, that is a manual process & becomes a nightmare to discuss & explain 20 times a day during crunch time. Then factoring weighted or unweighted and the impact to student scores. Offering an "add extra credit' category would eliminate a lot of confusion for instructors, students, and those assisting with ed tech. 

[lmacintyre1]

Please find a convenient way to add extra credit for the semester like in class bonus pints or doing an additional assignment.  I use weighted averages.  If this category is set as any percent greater than zero, students without any bonus/ extra credit have a zero in this category count AGAINST them.  I want to have this column only count FOR them if they have any bonus or extra credit points.  My courses are integrated with WebAssign or My Lab Math and this is really aggravating.

Please add a user-friendly option to the Canvas gradebook.

[WilliamMuse]

My grading is the average of 4 tests plus up to 5 bonus points for each of two other projects.  Canvas will calculate the test average, but it cannot add the bonus points.  Your representative tried to get me to post the bonus points in a percentage, but that is very confusing and doesn't tell the students how they did on the projects.  It would ne seem unreasonable for you to change the software so you could add bonus points to the test average in order to get a final grade.  I can be done on Excel, so why can't it be done on Canvas?

[Msrendonart]

I am a secondary teacher (Instructor) looking for an automatic, no-penalty, grade book category for Extra Credit.

Right now, there are various workarounds and all of them are absurd. I also just found that sometimes the workaround works so badly that it is causing the grades to decrease up to 10% or not adjust at all. Also, if I try the 0 points method and add the points in extra credit, the grade jumps up to 25%. I am not a math teacher, but those maths do not add up.

So please, engineer a feature in the grade book for no penalty extra credit that has a max percentage of the overall total that teachers can set.

For example, when we used to use School Loop for grading, there was an extra credit category that teachers could set to be no more than a certain percentage (mine was 5%) of the overall total points for that grade book. Please help us get this.

[chriscas]

Hi @Msrendonart,

I know you said you've tried a lot of the suggestions you already found in the community, but I'm curious about your gradebook/assignment setup.  There are a couple different methods that I know our instructors use to give extra credit depending mostly on whether they use assignment groups and weighing.

If you use assignment groups and weighing:

• All of your "normal" assignment group weights should total 100%.
• You can create an assignment group called "extra credit" and set it to weigh the max much extra credit you want to give (say 5% using your example).  Your total weight should now show 105%.
• Put your extra credit assignments in that extra credit group, making them worth points and scoring them like a normal assignment (do not make them 0 point assignments).  The extra credit will be calculated by taking the total number of points a student earned for assignments in that group, then dividing by the points possible on the assignments they did, and that percentage is then multiplied by the group weight.

If you don't use assignment groups, you have two options...

1. Use the method above, just set the default "assignments" group with all of your assignments to 100% weight to start with.
2. Use the "0 point" method.  This is where you create your extra credit assignments and make them worth 0 points.  The tricky thing is figuring out how many points to use when you score.  Canvas always uses points earned divided by points possible as the formula to calculate a student's final score.  If you have 1000 points of normal assignments and you wanted to offer an extra credit assignment worth 5% of the total grade, you'd give 50 points for a perfect submission.  This adds 50 to the points earned, and leaves the points possible at 1000.  This is just one example, so you'd just have to adjust the math based on the total number of points you'll have in the course.

If neither of these methods work for you, perhaps you could share more about what you're seeing so someone might be able to chime in with other possibilities or we might be able to spot something you could tweak to make everything work.

-Chris

[Msrendonart]

Hi @chriscas,

I actually have mine set up the way you mentioned in the first scenario. I'm not entirely understanding this "The extra credit will be calculated by taking the total number of points a student earned for assignments in that group, then dividing by the points possible on the assignments they did, and that percentage is then multiplied by the group weight." because I make my extra credit assignments all or nothing (so they can't get partial credit for an EC assignment).

Also, most of the extra credit assignments are manual. The ones where they must submit something make it tricky. If I make it worth points and students choose not to do the EC or don't need to, it says missing and gives them a Zero. Even after I go and manually change it to none and delete the Zeros I come back to a red column with Zeros the next time I refresh that page. One FB user suggested I excuse (EX) those students not completing it, which is also super tedious since I have almost 200 students.

I was also having a problem today when entering grades for EC where some students' grades wouldn't change at all and a few students' grades dropped 10% (which is crazy that would happen while entering extra credit). I was chatting with Help and they said it was because I hadn't entered all of the grades for every category yet. But that doesn't make sense to me either. I'd understand if there was a cap of points being earned for extra credit, but not students' losing grade percentages because of the EC.

I guess that was my whole point in asking for a no-penalty EC category that we could set a max percentage for (this was a very basic setting in our previous grading system in a far less capable LMS).

I hope this was clear because I've been really confused trying to wrap my head around this all day.

Thanks for chiming in to help!

-Roxxan

[chriscas]

Hi @Msrendonart,

Perhaps a couple more questions might be in order here so everyone can understand what you[re currently doing.  In your extra credit group, do you just have a single assignment where you're assigning all-or-nothing points, or do you have multiple different assignments that can be done for extra credit?

In general, i'd say what you've described for assignments in general (even extra credit) is right.  If a student didn't do something, giving a 0 would usually be appropriate (even if it's extra credit).  If you don't give a 0, Canvas basically assumes the assignment wasn't required and doesn't penalize a student for not doing it.  I'll give a scenario below for extra credit...

Let's say you have your extra credit group worth 5% of the overall grade (weights add to 105%).  Now let's also say you have two extra credit assignments in there, and you wanted them to count equally for 2.5% of the overall grade and you just made them worth 1 point each in the assignment setup.  If a student did one assignment and got full credit for it, when you give them the credit, Canvas will actually give them all 5% in that category (1  point earned out of 1 point possible) until you give them a 0 for the other assignment (then 1 point earned out of 2 possible).  If you only have one extra credit assignment, the point is a bit moot, but for completeness and accuracy, I will say suggest giving any student a 0 if they don't do an assignment, whether it's a regular or extra credit one.  Just leaving the grade blank ends up artificially inflating their grade.  As of the Canvas update a week or two ago, the act of giving a grade (even a 0) will also automatically remove the missing tag.

Hope this helps clear things up a bit.  I will agree a bit with the support agent that when a class first starts, the grading can be a little bit weird as some groups may be empty, but I've reviewed the math with instructors on multiple occasions and we've never actually found a problem with Canvas calculations.

-Chris

[SamanthaChoate]

In general a better way to deal with Extra Credit.  A built in way to make this work how teachers want it to.

Currently, the system to do extra credit won't work with our SIS grade sync as our SIS (Synergy) doesn't allow for 0 point assignments.  So at least an option that will work with grade sync would be appreciated.

[Kelly1313]

Need a more straightforward way to create an extra credit assignment, instead of creating an assignment worth 0 points. Also, show it on the Grades page as "Extra Credit." (Note: I previously used D2L/Brightspace and it has a MUCH better approach to set up extra credit vs Canvas).

[ChrisMedina]

Can this request get some love from Instructure? This simplification request has been asked for years and I can contest as a canvas admin since 2012 that this is one of the biggest complaints I get. Please fix this instead of reconfiguring an icon.