Disable "What If" Feature

[lindsay_henry]

As helpful as the "what if" feature can be, many students become obsessed with their grade as they create hypothetical situations that lead to "grade grubbing".  We all know too well the "I needed a 92 on the project to have an A and I was only one point away so is there anything I can do?" situation with a student.  

I propose that teachers have the capability of disabling this feature.

#mhs

Comments from Instructure

Thank you for your thoughts and participation around this request. It is never fun to hear about cheating or ways in which individuals abuse trust. We feel that the intended use of this feature is extremely valuable and continue to hear so from students. At this time we are not planning on removing or disabling “what if” functionality within Canvas.

This has been a good conversation, and the conversation can continue, but we will now close this idea for voting. It will remain in the Canvas Studio space, so there will not be a need for resubmission or re-vote of this idea. It has been considered and we have given an official response, even if it is not the one you were hoping for. Thank You.

[khellyer]

I don't think the issue is about cheating or abuse of trust as much as it is about teaching professionals wanting to have the option of disabling this feature, rather than having this feature be required by Canvas. The majority of teachers want this to happen, and it's discouraging that you're not willing to make this possible.

[rae_gerold-smit]

This is a useful tool for students. It can be motivational. Removing access just means we have to do the math the hard way instead of obtaining accurate projections through Canvas. Denying access to accurate data will not stop students from speculation.

[witherm]

So what is the final decision will teachers have the option of turning it on or off? That's really the only point here. There are good reasons to have it on and some to have it off, just give us the choice. Those are my thoughts for what they are worth

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[Renee_Carney]

witherm the final decision is "At this time we are not planning on removing or disabling “what if” functionality within Canvas", which includes an option to toggle it on or off.

[blchitty]

I completely agree. There is no reason to not give teachers the ability to disable if it is causing communication issues with parents. I like "final decision" there is no such thing. Let's keep on our CSM's. At the end of the day they say Canvas was created by ideas and suggestions. That last message contradicts that.

[sbailey]

Agree - I have been very disappointed with Canvas.  Canvas pretends to care about the ideas and suggestions, but all I see is help with solutions and work-arounds on what they have already created, and not much creating, fixing, or changing of new ideas or problems.

[Renee_Carney]

 @blchitty  

Please know that we're not trying to be confrontational, just the opposite.  When we started the feature idea process years ago, and every-time we evolve it, the community has said "be honest with us, if you're not going to build something, tell us".  And that's what we're trying to do. 

We do listen to Teachers and we do listen to Admins, but we also listen to students, and we have to take everyone's feedback and perspectives into consideration.  Whenever we speak with students, the 'what if' feature is one of their top mentions for helping them stay on task and focused on success.  

[sbailey]

Brandon Chitty:

Do you know if there is a place on this site where I can find a list of the instructor/user ideas suggested and voted on by users that were later adopted by Canvas - to include the number of votes and dates of adoption.  Thanks.

Steve

[kmeeusen]

 @blchitty 

I'd like to add to what  @Renee_Carney  has said.....

Please check out the Canvas Production Release Notes where it is noted that an improvement, or at least a change) to Canvas was the result of feature ideas submitted by Canvas user. You will quickly see that the majority of changes originated with all of us - the Canvas users who participate in the Community.

Secondly, check out Project Khaki 2017, where 40 Community users were invited to Instructure headquarters at Instructure's expense, to determine how 20% of the Canvas development budget would be spent.

And finally, consider the rather incredible budget expense for this Canvas Community, for which one of its primary purposes is to solicit user feedback!

Which other LMS can you name has provided this level of user support?

I am one of those who prefers that Instructure give us a simple "No" on a feature idea.

Kelley

[matthew_weather]

There's not "no reason." Instead, there may be a reason with which you disagree. Here's such a reason: Canvas was built with students in mind, and many design decisions favor usefulness to students over convenience to teachers.

For grades, it's always to students' advantage to be able to see "What-If" scores, whether a teacher likes it or not. Turning that ability off merely privileges students/parents good enough at math to do the calculations on their own, and hides information from students/parents who can't do those calculations.

At InstructureCon, I'll be urging them to prohibit the ability of turning off "What-If" scores and to leave this as-is.

[sbailey]

"For grades, it's always to students' advantage to be able to see "What-if" scores".... I disagree.

[sbailey]

Kelly:

I have checked the "Canvas Production Release Notes"  but I can't find a simple list of the instructor/user ideas suggested and voted on by users that were later adopted by Canvas - to include the number of votes and dates of adoption (or something similar)  

Please advise if I am simply missing the list somewhere in the linked location.  Thanks.

Steve

Comment from  @Renee_Carney ‌

Stephen Bailey 

If you go to Canvas Studio and click on the green "completed" button on the right, you'll see a filter of all completed ideas!

[rae_gerold-smit]

Thank you, Canvas Team! I am both a student and a parent. The “What If” feature is very useful in both capacities.

[c_murphy]

Just to add a different take on this, my institution has turned off the totals column in the gradebook across all courses as a policy determined by registry, so the What If feature is confusing and purposeless for our students. The option to turn it off would mean we wouldn't have make bespoke training guides for students that lamely tell them that the What If feature isn't relevant (and even so we STILL get lots of student queries because they are confused as to what it means).

Comment from  @Renee_Carney ‌

 @c_murphy  This is a unique case/policy and we may have a solution to help in this scenario.  I have contacted your CSM.

[blchitty]

I am also not trying to be confrontational I have just seen so many times where a student makes decisions to do meaningful work because it will not change the letter grade. That is my main issue. We have students missing out on learning. Teachers are doing work arounds by not putting the assignment points in Canvas until later to prevent this. Now they are managing things they should not have to do. I am just advocating to have it an option.  

[sbailey]

Renee:

Thank you - interesting - from just a brief glance, it would appear that most of the changes resulted from around 250 to 300 votes.  The link is helpful to find new options available.

[blchitty]

I am afraid you are not seeing my point. What level do you work in?  I will also be doing the opposite. 

[blchitty]

I know of both of these things and am a Canvas advocate because of the structure that they have in place. I am just disappointed at the lack of investigation on this one. I would love to see where they have poled students. Maybe I am missing something. I do know that in K-12 this tool is not used as intended. It is merely a way to either deceive parents or to not participate in a learning opportunity because it will not affect the grade. High achieving students do not use this feature either as every grade matters to them even if they have a 98% in a class. 

[laurakgibbs]

I'll just chime in that with grades, there is no "always" that is true for all students, all teachers, all courses. Grades are a mess, and whatever strategies students and/or teachers want to use to try to escape the harm done by grading sounds good to me. I voted up on this idea, not because I would turn it off myself (there are no "what-if" issues that arise in my class; I use a totally different approach), but because I think anything having to do with grades and grading needs to open to whatever configuration someone wants to try.

It's a way bigger issue than the LMS itself and what the LMS does (or does not do) as it promotes different kinds of grading cultures. I actually prefer a culture of not grading at all, and here are some resources I share with my students about that, since having a dialogue with them about grades and grading is an important part of my classes

(Un)Grading Resources where you will find links to these articles:

• Create a Growth Culture, Not a Performance-Obsessed One
• Why I Don't Grade 
• If You Are Grading, You May Not Be Teaching
• The Emotional Weight of Being Graded, for Better or Worse
• How Can Students Be Successful in a High Stakes World?
• Getting rid of grades 
• There's nothing wrong with grade inflation
• Standards, Grades And Tests Are Wildly Outdated, Argues 'End Of Average'
• Teachers Going Gradeless 
• Love of Learning More Predictive of Success Than Grades
• Can a Failing Grade Motivate a Student?

So while you will be lobbying for what-if grading, I will be InstructureCon urging people to ask themselves this question: what if you just stopped grading? 🙂

#TTOG

[blchitty]

Interesting! Thanks for sharing. My district is slowly moving to Standard Base Grading. I will share these ideas.