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drwexelbla
Community Member

Fudge Points and Incomplete Grades

Hi there,

I have been using fudge points to grade all of my quizzes lately, because all of my questions have been short essay answers and it is quite tedious to enter a score in every box for every question. However, something that has come to my attention recently is that some of the quizzes that are being graded using only fudge points are not registering as "completely graded" and therefore not showing up in the gradebook as a score but an icon (and also, therefore not registering in students' individual gradebooks), whereas others graded in the exactly same way are registering as completed and therefore are showing up in the gradebook as a score. While perusing through the Q&A section just now, I noticed somewhere that "quiz scores are incomplete until each question is given a score," so I thought, perhaps, that could be my problem -- that I'm not scoring each question, just assigning fudge points -- and yet, to reiterate, SOME quizzes that I am grading using just fudge points are showing as completed in the gradebook and some are not. Please help.

Also, if I really have to go back and score each question for each student for each quiz I have graded this way, I may go insane. So, anything we can do to avoid that would be great. 

Thanks for your time,

Daniel R Wexelblatt

English Instructor

Lake Tahoe Community College

Western Nevada College

18 Replies
kmeeusen
Community Coach
Community Coach

Hi  @drwexelbla 

I can't help but ask, "How do you know your students are entering correct answers if you don't grade the quiz items?"  And then, in the end, how do you know your students have achieved your course learning outcomes?

Kelley

Dan Wexelblatt

3:13 PM (10 minutes ago)
to jive-1811553804-88em-2-2pjh
Ha! Well, I am reading each response, just not assigning a score in the designated score box for each answer because when my questions all have short and simple, written answers, such us "Define, in your own words what X says about Y?", and I have 5-10 questions per quiz, it is pretty tedious to click in each designated score box to write, usually, one of two, or one of three numerical inputs, i.e. either "10" for full points, "5" for half points, and "0" for no points. I have instead utilized the "fudge points" feature to make my grading more time-efficient. Thanks for fielding the question though, Kelley! 

Our institution just had this same question. They used a rubric for their essay quiz and then used the fudge points to enter the score from the rubric and it's showing the score as incomplete in the gradebook as well. 

blandc
Community Member

Kelley,

You should delete this comment of yours, it showcases that you've never had 160 to 180 students in one semester, grading entirely ESSAY questions. 

ablack9
Community Member

I'm adding a reply here because I find this to be the case too. The "Fudge Point" option is useless for a quiz. It does not make the correction IN the gradebook, where it is calculated into the final grade. Like Daniel, I have to grade about 50 quizzes at a time and I give the feedback not in the tiny box beneath the question, where it is difficult to see and edit my own remarks, but in the submission comment. The grades I gave for certain quizzes are more like an "A" on a paper for overall work rather than for individual questions, and I give qualitative remarks overall because the quiz comments functions are tedious. Recently I decided that a quiz was too difficult (I teach English Literature to general education students), so I decided to boost everyone's grade to the point where they would receive at least a "90" on it. I went through and added "fudge points" and have since gotten about five emails from students saying their grade hasn't changed.

I also can't change their grade IN the gradebook itself. It remains the dread "rocket" which means it doesn't factor into the grade. This is a real problem and, unlike what the commenter above asks, there is often a need to change a grade and it would be nice to allow us the ability to change it. I had assumed the problem with "Fudge Points" was that you must grade the entire quiz before using them, so I did that, but even then the points do not appear in the grade book.

I have found in the past that Canvas administrators or "help people" ignore these questions because, I suspect, they know it's an issue and perhaps don't want to deal with it. Daniel asks an important question. Please address it. Quizzes are a huge pain in the neck and they shouldn't be, since online instructors depend on them being functional and providing at the very least that the functions that are listed work as they are supposed to.

chofer
Community Coach
Community Coach

Hello there,  @drwexelbla ...

I have been reviewing older questions here in the Canvas Community, and I stumbled upon your question.  I wanted to check in with you because I noticed that there hasn't been any new activity in this topic since February 22, 2019.  Have you had a chance to review all postings in this topic?  If so, did any of them help to answer your question?  Are there any outstanding questions that you still have as it relates to your original question?  If you feel that one of the above responses has helped to answer your question, please feel free to mark that person's feedback as "Correct".  However, if you still have questions form Community members, please come back to this topic to post a message below so that someone might be able to help.  For the time being, I am going to mark your question as "Assumed Answered" mainly because there hasn't been any new activity in this topic for almost four months.  However, that won't prevent you or others from posting additional questions and/or comments below that are related to this topic.  I hope that's alright with you, Daniel.  Looking forward to hearing back from you soon.

Hi Chris,

No you may not mark this as "assumed answered." The only response from Canvas on this topic has been Kelley's very snotty retort that did not in any way answer my question, but instead called into question my integrity as an educator, which was followed by two other instructors that had the same issue and also did not receive a response. 
You may mark this post as "disappointed and moved on to redesign his course so he did not have to deal with Canvas' quiz protocol." (Though, to be fair, I would have redesigned the class anyway, because despite what Kelley may think, I am a highly motivated and constantly progressing instructor).
While we are at it, would you please start another discussion thread on my behalf titled: the "View Feedback link" and why students should have to click through three different pages to find it, when, for English instructors that is likely the primary means of providing helpful commentary in order for our students to improve in the future, because, you know, that whole "mission if higher education" thing.
Thanks Chris!

 @drwexelbla 

Sorry there wasn't a succinct answer to this question.  In reading your initial response I can see that you are using the features of quizzes and fudge points differently than their created purpose, so it is not surprising if something is not functioning as you were expecting it to.  The oddity that I do see in the experiences you described, along with those shared by Andrew and Victoria is that the behavior was not always consistent, which leads me to ask if you submitted a support case? If not, and you are still experiencing the inconsistent behavior, please do.  

Sorry you read Kelley's questions as questioning your integrity. Knowing Kelley, I'm pretty sure that was not his intention.  He's an awesome admin and instructor at a community college that likes to help other people solve problems, especially those that help clarify and simplify the experience for the student.  

You might want to check out the Quizzes.Next User Group‌, for the current Canvas Quiz feature set is changing. 

Regarding feedback, there is an existing feature idea you can add your vote and use cases to.  Take a look at https://community.canvaslms.com/ideas/3254-making-feedback-more-visible-to-students?sr=search&search...

James
Navigator

 @drwexelbla ,

One thing that may help script I wrote and shared with the Community: QuizWiz: Enhancements to SpeedGrader and Quizzes‌.

One of the options there is that you can go through and automatically assign full points to any answered essay question and zero for any unanswered essay question. It was suggested by a math teacher where we typically assign full points and then go through and take off points where needed. If your case, it would assign the 10 points and then you would only have to change it for 5 or 0.

It can also add a "Update and advance" button so that you can move to the next user automatically rather than having to click update and then move the mouse and click advance.

Although it sounds like you're more interested in the speed benefits provided by entering a single grade rather than scoring individual questions, there are some other features that might help other people. QuizWiz also duplicates the header at the bottom of each question so that you can assign points at the bottom, rather than having to scroll back to the top of the question to enter them. It can also duplicate the fudge points from the bottom and put them at the top so that you don't have to scroll back to the top to enter the fudge points.

In your situation, it sounds like you've already graded the questions, and this may not be a good work flow for quizzes that have already been completed. It would take the 0's that they have for the questions and give them full points, which would duplicate the effort that you've already made. However, it might be useful going forward.

Moving forward, though, you could set it automatically give full points, adjust the fudge points down, and then update and advance to the next user.

If one had the technical skills, one could make a copy of the script and modify it to get 0 points for essay questions, but I don't know how much is still out there to change. If you do this, then it's a matter of keeping your mouse over the update and advance button, letting the page load and automatically set the scores, and then clicking the button. It really becomes click, wait a second or two, repeat.

There are other technical solutions through the Canvas API. I started out to write QuizWiz to use those and automate the process completely, but abandoned that approach since it was more powerful and allowed more freedom when incorporated into SpeedGrader.