We are changing from Blackboard to Canvas and therefore from SafeAssign to ???
We are looking at Turnitin and VeriCite...
Michael, since this is more of an opinion based question than a right/wrong answer type question I'm going to flip this over to a discussion.
As for your question, we don't actually use either of these, but here are some resources that might help:
Hopefully this will help you on your quest for information!
thank you so much for your help!
It is true that I like Turnitin, but I like Turnitin both as a plagiarism deterrent and as a grading and student critique package. I believe Peermark and Grademark are underrated parts of the Turnitin service. Peermark has helped me get much better critiques from students, and the ability to save an reuse comments in Grademark is saving me from carpal tunnel. Some folks only want plagiarism detection and prefer to do everything else in Canvas, so they might feel the additional services are just in the way.
It is also true that Turnitin customer service can be spotty and that they are still ironing some bugs out of their LTI tool. For all of that, on the whole, Turnitin makes my life easier. My kids like it too because they get more afternoons at the park while I use the Turnitin iPad app to grade papers offline.
I hope that helps, Michael!
Thank you so much….we had heard that Vericite is less expensive.
Probably. Turnitin is not cheap. We have done better by negotiating multi-year contracts with Turnitin.
Sadly, we are leaving Turnitin for Vericite. From Turnitin, I have no negative experiences as administrator to report. All our negative reports about Turnitin come from students. When I masquerade as the reporting student, I don't experience any irregularities. My concern--and other here--is thus perception. Turnitin has buried themselves in a hole, and they can't seem to get out of it. Turnitin seems to be the 500-pound gorilla on the market, but they act like they just started. I say "sadly" because Turnitin seems to work really well. No other plagiarism software seems to catch as much as Turnitin. I am convince that our student-issue is education and poor design on Turnitin's part. They have OK design, but you have to know more about technology to get it to work right. If a student fails at the technology, then Turnitin is in jeopardy. Notice: we didn't find a better product and move from Turnitin to Vericite. We believed the student and faculty complaints over time. This place follows popular demand well.
We have yet to spin up VeriCite, but will be doing so over the summer as it was just approved as the replacement plagiarism tool. It is much cheaper than Turnitin, but also comes with far less functionality. In our view, the functionality should come from Canvas and this tool is just in place for those needing the plagiarism service. We didn't need or want "mini-Canvas" and the grading features or app....not that they aren't good. If you Google Colorado State University and VeriCite, you'll get a great site with their support for it. Good luck!
Shane, although I've always liked using Turnitin, I am no fan of Turnitin's customer service, and am always interested in exploring viable alternatives. You stated, "the functionality should come from Canvas." For my part, apart from the originality checker, the only Turnitin feature I use is QuickMarks--and if Crocodoc is beefed up (Ability to Save and Copy from Frequently Used Comments in Speedgrader/Crocodoc ), that might prove to be a satisfactory Canvas-enabled substitute. Which other feature(s) of Turnitin do you think you are most likely to miss when you make the switch to Vericite?
I also noticed that the Colorado State help document states, "A paper that uses VeriCite cannot use SpeedGrader for grading. The paper can be graded in the VeriCite assignment interface." What are the implications of this vis-a-vis your hope to have Canvas provide the functionality (i.e. if you can't use SpeedGrader, then how can Canvas provide the functionality?).
Stefanie, I am not really able to address these questions as we're not coming from Turnitin to VeriCite. We're finishing up our first full year on Canvas without plagiarism detection and are sunsetting Blackboard at the end of the spring term, so faculty needing plagiarism have been using SafeAssign in their corresponding Blackboard course shell to do direct submissions. We are hoping to have VeriCite up and ready for the fall term.
As for the inability to grade through SpeedGrader, I am sure that our training team and instructional designers will come up with a workflow that can be shared to the University community. Honestly, our usage of the current plagiarism tool is so small and centers on being used as a "deterrent" that I don't foresee too many faculty issues out of the gate. VeriCite has stated that they are going to pushing some new features by summer, so perhaps a tighter LTI integration will be one of them?
Ah, that's an interesting perspective, Shane. I used SafeAssign extensively when we were a WebCT/CE8/Blackboard school, and it sounds like VeriCite is offering a similar (essentially straightfoward originality checking) service. I hope you'll share the workflow you wind up devising.
Yes, VeriCite is very much offering an originality checking service. This is all we wanted and needed, as we desire to utilize Canvas to the fullest that it offers. I'll do my best to remember to share out the workflow. :-)
As of last month, Vericite works with Seedgrader. VeriCite Anti-Plagiarism - Canvas Information and Resources - Colorado State University
So glad to see this post and all the conversation. Like Shane O'Hara, we have yet to jump on board with VeriCite. Turnitin is kind of the category-killer for plagiarism detection, the problem is, they seem to know it. As Stefanie Sanders says, their customer service leaves a lot to be desired, and their pricing is a bit high.
We have been slow on the uptake to get a pilot rolling with Vericite, but will be targeting this for next fall, with the hope of replacing Turnitin after the coming school year.
My institution just enabled VeriCite through their 90-day trial, so I have it up in our test environment to try out. Here's a few screenshots for those interested in seeing the interface after you create a new assignment where the submission type equals the VeriCite external tool:
List of assignments in VeriCite
I am still learning the report piece, but they have a Canvas VeriCite LTI Integration - YouTube channel with some videos that help immensely.
Hello Shane O'Hara - have you heard definitively when Vericite will release their new Canvas LTI? We have asked them a few times, but keep receiving replies along the lines of .."a couple of months"...
Please let us know if you have anything more specific - thank you!
Hi Crista, we've not received a definitive answer either. The best I've gotten was "summer 2016" which is inline with your "a couple of months"....
I'll let you know if I hear anything different over the next month or so.
We have a webinar with Vericite today - I will see if we can get anything more definitive. If so, I will make sure to post that information to this thread. Thanks!!
Fresh off of our Vericite webinar, where they did not give us a definitive date. However, they did say the coding is complete on their end and is now in Canvas's court for final review/implementation. They are hoping for customer availability mid-late summer.
There are several videos in the YouTube channel listed above, showing the new Canvas integration - which basically is identical to legacy Turnitin. Overall, we had a very positive reaction to what we saw, and will move forward with a trial starting next week.
My institution, Colorado Mountain College, switched from Blackboard 8 with SafeAssign to Canvas with Turnitin in 2012. Happy to chat about our Turnitin experience since 2012. Find my contact info at www.coloradomtn.edu/innovations
I know through my personal network that Bellevue College in the state of Washington has done a lot with Vericite. See: VeriCite
I'd like to bump this, if only to continue the conversation and see what other experiences have been garnered.
My college is potentially leaving TurnItIn for Vericite, in part due to the cost. But many of my faculty use TII both for the anti-plagiarism aspect and for Peermark, and are asking what Vericite truly offers (not just what their marketing team says )
Thanks in advance for any information!
We went from Blackboard to Canvas over the past year, therefore we had to move plagiarism from SafeAssign to another service. Since we didn't like the hefty TII price and were already making use of the grading tools through SpeedGrader, we went with Vericite. If you are familiar with SafeAssign reports, then they are much the same. Plus, they openly ingested all of our SafeAssign files to build out our repository. We piloted Vericite this summer using a free-trial and went full in beginning this term. The integration is simple to use, but still has one downfall in development - grading Vericite submission via SpeedGrader. We're told it is coming, but taking longer than anticipated. Good luck!
Ditto to Shane O'Hara's response. We are now starting the first full quarter with VeriCite and so far, so good. The SpeedGrader integration will be welcome when it arrives - hopefully soon!
Just wanted to post an update to this thread. We went live in production this past weekend with the deeper integration. This means the faculty will now have use of SpeedGrader when using VeriCite - yay!! We anticipate this will improve faculty satisfaction and buy-i. As we get additional feedback, I will post any updates to this thread.
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The University of Denver is going to start a 60 day trial of VeriCite using their new API (not the existing LTI tool) starting January 3rd 2017. I think we'll be one of the first to test the API version so I'll post our findings. We're hoping that the API experience will mirror the TurnItIn API experience: a simple checkbox with pop out window for options, using Speedgrader to see scores and grade papers, and have a good back end interface for administrators.
Our major go/no-go for launch is both how the product performs, but also how we'll integrate our existing repository of papers: we have over 200,000 submissions since 2014 via the TurnItIn integration. VeriCite has assured me that I will have backend access to a FTP or web folder to drop these papers into their indexing 'engine' and I think this will be the heaviest task for our administrative team during testing: we need to ensure that the product both matches public documents and their own repository, but also our own papers.
Some things we'll be considering from a technical perspective:
- If something malfunctions for the user (scores not returned, submissions incorrectly reporting, etc) who supports it: VeriCite or Canvas? What is the matrix to determine who supports what? As the administrator, we don't want to have finger pointing or have to wait for the ownership of the issue to be sorted on an ad-hoc basis. We need to know which entry point to ping for support.
- What is the expected time of resolution based on the Service Level Agreement with each company? Our courses are 10 week quarters: waiting for more than 2 business days for a resolution on something common like a resubmission request will be a *failure* in our eyes. This is especially egregious in our current TurnItIn integration and any improvements here will weigh significantly higher than any ease-of-use issues, for example.
- What type of reporting and metrics will we have on the back end of VeriCite?
- How will we be notified of outages and improvements?
- What type of visibility will we have into the VeriCite ticketing system for users that contact VeriCite directly? We can already see our Canvas tickets, so this would be a major plus.
How do you access your TII repository of papers? We are considering Vericite, but TII told us we have no way to access our own repository of papers.
Kris - we were able to extract the individual student submissions for Turnitin-enabled assignments from Canvas and VeriCite loaded these to their repository prior to our go-live. I can put you in touch with our team member who performed this magic if you want more details.
Crista - interesting, I would love to know more!
Crista Calderon If you get some time, I would be interested to learn more about how you were able to extract your TII submissions as well. Thanks!
I am also interested in how you extracted the student submissions from Canvas to load into the VeriCite repository.
I've been using Turnitin for about ten years now both for plagiarism detection and grading exams and other assignments. Over the years, i've built up about 1000 grade marks, some of which I reuse for the difference courses I teach. For most of that time, I've had students create their own Turnitin accounts and they directly submit papers to that site. Since our college adopted Canvas about three years ago, I've tried the Canvas- Turnitin LTI integration and it does not work very well, so I've gone back to having students create their own Turnitin accounts.
I am now one of the "piloteers" for our school in trying out Canvas/Vericite. From what I have seen I am not impressed. I've watched a number of videos and read materials from Vericite. Compared to Turnitin, the Vericite reports look sloppy and cluttered. Also, I don't know yet how well Vericite will save instructor comments (Vericite "annotations") for later re-use in different courses. Will Vericite allow instructors to search their own libraries of annotations to re-use them for a current assignment? So for now I'm very skeptical of Vericite. The one bad thing about Turnitin is that their customer service is AWFUL!! Typically, I've waited 2-3 weeks for any responses.
Apart from the customer service, what problems are you having with the Turnitin LTI, Gary?
The assignment settings in Canvas and TN sometimes conflict with one another and most important, about 10-15% of papers graded via TN don't get transferred to the Canvas gradebook.
Hi, Gary. Are you using the iPad app to grade some papers? That is the only grade transfer problem I have seen. Grades from the iPad do not make their way back to Canvas. Turnitin knows about this issue and has stated it is a technical issue with the way the LTI specification functions. They are looking for a solution.
With the conflicting settings, I am not sure what you are referring to. Perhaps it is dates? If so, some of this is a function of how your Canvas admin set up the LTI app. You can take a look at Canvas and Turnitin to see details on the app set up to sync dates. If it is something other than dates, I am curious to hear specifics about what is bothering you. The LTI is not perfect, and some workflows work better than others with it.
Anyway, have a nice day!
The new Vericite API integration works through Speedgrader and not a standalone application like Turnitin. Therefore, you will not find that it will allow for you to save comments. Vericite's advantage comes from a simple report within Canvas convenient for those schools who don't want all the bells and whistles of TII. We have been using it for almost a year and haven't had any instructor complaints...granted we did migrate from Blackboard with SafeAssign and had no plagiarism tool for roughly 9 months.
If what you say is true -- that comments cannot be stored - than I will fight tooth and nail against the adoption of Vericite. There is no way I can grade essays on line and justify typing the same comments over and over again.
Keep in mind...the integration runs through Canvas, so grading with Speedgrader works the same way. Speedgrader merely serves up the report. I wouldn't knock Vericite for this because it's not how their product model works. There is a distinct difference between the two products esp. in price. Turnitin is essentially the Cadillac of models. Good luck!
Thanks for the thought -- however, despite Turnitin's lousy customer service, which I readily concede, it does make the grading of critical thinking essays very simple, something that Speedgrader would not do IF comments created via Speedgrader/Crocadocs can't be stored. If Vericite can't deal with this than my opinion (and it is just that, my opinion) is an inferior product. How could instuctors grade essays on-line without retyping comments over and over again?
As much as I also like grading in TII, there are other ways to store comments for reuse. You might consider a clipboard manager for instance. I use Ars Clip, which is free for Windows machines and allows me to save and reuse comments.
Hello from the Seattle area! I know that Bellevue College in Bellevue, WA, uses Vericite - they are in the same community college network that my institution belongs to. A quick search and you'll find their info.I used to work at a school that used Turnitin for years (in & out of Canvas) as well as SafeAssign with the Blackboard LMS; I'd be glad to answer any specific questions you may have. PS: I wrote a LOT of posts on Turnitin at my former job. Visit innovations.coloradomtn.edu and search the knowledge base. Also, if you try to combine Crocodoc and Turnitin, well, they DON'T always play nice together as they each have a different list of file types that they'll accept. Here's a knowledge base article on that.http://innovations.coloradomtn.edu/knowledgebase/turnitin-and-crocodoc/
Did you store comments on Turnitin/Grademark for future use? Are you doing the same with Vericite?
Nope, never stored comments on Turnitin, though I was an LMS admin, not a teacher... I'm still testing out Vericite.
We're going to pilot Vericite. Soon. Several advantages.
* Cost is about 1/6 that of TII.
* Includes a plugin that makes adding plagiarism check a simple process. A CHECKBOX. Imagine that. Just like TII used to be. Now it's an LTI nightmare.
* The data is yours. You keep all the submissions.
* TII is overkill. Many features actually compete with Canvas, such as Rubrics. We never use it.
I can't wait....
I am currently piloting and so far, not impressed. So far, grading not nearly as versatile as is Turnitin. We’ll see if the 1/6th cost you cited for Vericite is penny-wise/pound foolish.
"grading not nearly as versatile as is Turnitin"
To speak to this statement, Vericite reports are accessible from Speedgrader; therefore, Vericite grading is done with Speedgrader. For small institutions wishing to use Canvas and not pay a steep price for a competing product, Vericite works just fine. We have been on Vericite for two semesters and brought over all of our papers from the prior product (Vericite imported them as part of the contract). Our only complaint is that the new native integration does not have a direct submit function for instructors, but if you are crafty you can figure out a workaround or hook in the LTI.
Shane, I've gotten mixed information regarding Direct Submit. From Scott @ Vericite:
"Yes....instructors can directly submit student papers individually or in bulk in a .zip file. They can submit to an assignment in a course, or could set up a private assignment (inaccessible to students) and submit them there privately. I recommend the FAQ section of our site which covers other features similar to these, too.
If you have the LTI version of Vericite, yes...the direct upload will work. The LTI requires all Assignments to be created with an external tool link to Vericite. The checkbox you mention is not available.
We migrated from the LTI to native integration with the simple checkbox setup. This does NOT allow for direct submit. I asked if it was in the plans and was told no...and that I would have to reconfigure the LTI on a course by course basis or setup a course for just this use case.
Hi - Unless something has changed in the last two weeks, Instructors cannot submit papers for students with the native Canvas/VC interface. The instructor guide for the native version does not have instructions for doing that. The instructor guide for the Canvas/VC LTI does.
You are correct.
Yes - it is true that instructors cannot submit for students through the native integration. However, this functionality is still available through the LTI, so it is possible to create a dummy assignment in order to get a report. Also, according to the email sent out this month, the new UI will be phased in with expected completion by the end of the summer. If you are currently using the native integration, VeriCite can turn on the new UI in a particular course, allowing you to do some testing now!
I'll try that -- Thank you.
Brace yourself for a projected 25% Turnitin cost increase this next year. That will jump the price (for us) to well north of $30K. I'm not sure any 'versatility' is worth that.
Yuck! Our TII renewal is coming up soon, and we've been testing Vericite as a potential alternative to TII's new LTI (double yuck)!
For the most part Vericite is fine, they have a new interface coming out this summer, which looks nice. And of course the checkbox is appealing. Looking forward to getting our renewal quote, which if you're correct and the cost rises 25% might make our decision to switch much easier.
P.S. Not to divert the discussion away from Vericite, but from my conversations with our TII rep its clear they are feeling pressure from the community to make their LTI better...
Right, the problem with the LTI (which I attribute to Canvas more than the third party vendors) is that they added four more 'clicks' to the plagiarism detection process, thereby driving down utilization. Faculty have complained about this process vehemently. They want something different.
Another vendor we looked at is building something potentially nicer than the checkbox, but won't be ready in time for our renewal. So I think the competition caused by the TII LTI reaction will help raise the bar a bit, as it already has in some ways for Vericite.
Can I inquire who that vendor is? Also, where did you see the UI for the upcoming Vericite?
The other vendor is Unplag. Basically rather than a checkbox within the submission type box, it's a separate box underneath for plagiarism - which makes it even more visible and obvious for faculty.
Vericite sent an email announcing the new UI, we're running a pilot so I guess we're on the list, but here is the preview they sent us: VeriCite New User Interface Preview - YouTube
Ouch! 25% is quite the increase.
If you're privy to the EDUCAUSE CIO list, there's an active and ongoing discussion regarding Vericite v. TII. A couple of quotes:
"Curtis, The vast majority (so far 108 out of 113) of the California Community Colleges have committed to migrate to Canvas. About 60 have moved already and the others are in various stages of migration. Many of our campuses have been using Turnitin.com have been relatively happy with it. It integrates nicely with Canvas. However, the cost is enormous and rising. TII just announced a 25% increase in their subscription fees for next year. There are also some serious concerns about TII's compliance with accessibility standards. The CCCs are piloting Vericite. We have a few campuses in our pilot. The integration with Canvas is pretty good. The product and the interface are well done. They are deeply committed to complying with WCAG 2.0 AA accessibility standards. If they have not already achieved that level of compliance, they will be there VERY soon. Of course, Vericite in not as full-featured as TII, but Vericite's cost is well below half of TII. Additionally, Vericite will return an institution's data should they choose to use another vendor in the future. This is something TII will not even discuss. If you or other colleagues have further questions about the CCC Vericite pilot, I would be happy to connect you with the appropriate member of our CCC Online Education Initiative (ccconlineed.org). Joe
_______ Joseph Moreau Vice Chancellor, Technology Foothill-De Anza Community College District"
"We have had a great experience working with Vericite for over two years now. Both the product and the company have made great strides over this time, and both are great. Happy to engage more – contact me off list, if you wish.
Patrick J. Burns
Dean of Libraries and VP for IT
Colorado State University
Fort Collins, CO 80523-1019"
If you would like to learn more about Vericite, this webinar is tremendous.
Does anyone know if Canvas Free for Teachers accounts are able to have native Vericite integration?
Darin, Vericite is not available in Free for Teachers accounts.
I don’t want to be a spammer or so, but I’m so excited about massive changes happening in the Unicheck (ex. Unplag) world that I cannot but spread these news everywhere, with everyone, with my friends, with their cats and dogs, and, of course with you.
Probably you have heard about webinar that @Ivan Klymenko, Director of Partnerships at Unicheck, is going to run this month, August 24. It is dedicated to native Unicheck integration in Canvas and something even more.
Come and ask whatever question you want, we’ll be glad to answer, discuss and explain.
All the details are here: https://community.canvaslms.com/events/2220-partner-webinar-meet-unicheck-a-universally-integrated-plagiarism-checker
*click*, *click*, *click*
Our team would love to see you!
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