Episode 21: AI, Online Learning, and the Future of Education in Latin America and Beyond

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Ryan Lufkin (00:01.134)
Hello and welcome to another episode of the EDUCAST 3000 podcast. I'm your host Ryan Lufkin and my regular co-host Melissa Loble is out this week. So I'm joined again by my guest co-host and Instructure's chief architect, Zach Pendleton. Zach, great to have you on the show again.

Zach Pendleton (00:16.192)
Thanks so much for having me, Ryan. I always love an opportunity to be a part of the podcast.

Ryan Lufkin (00:21.165)
Well, and this is a special one I've been looking forward to this podcast. We are joined today by Dr. Marta Castellanos. She is the academic vice rector at Fundación Universitaria del Aria Andina. And I hope she forgives my pronunciation. But Marta and I had the pleasure of meeting a couple of years ago at Tech de Monterrey at a conference. And I actually got to visit Aria Andina, the campus in Bogota a few months ago. So Marta, thank you so much for being willing to join us on the show.

Martha Castellanos (00:51.275)
Thanks, Ryan, and your visit to our campus in Bogotá in Argentina meant a lot to our entire community. You gave us valuable insights on education trends, and I'm really thrilled to be here with you in SAC. Thank you.

Ryan Lufkin (01:06.115)
Yeah, and honestly, you're a bit of a celebrity in Latin America and education. So give us a little bit of your background and how you came to find yourself in your role.

Martha Castellanos (01:18.497)
Well, I've been dedicating my career to transforming education through technology and education and after graduating as an economist, I worked in Colombia's public sector in different kind of roles where I discovered how technology could transform society. My passion for archaeology and history revealed me how the integration of technology with education has been essential for advancing human evolution.

And then I became director of Computers to Educate, which is a Colombian award-winning program that transforms education by providing technology and digital training to urban and rural schools. And that showed me that ICTs definitely can reduce educational gaps in developing countries. Then I went to Scotland, did my master's in telecommunications and

and having a brief about how technology is important to go deeper in education and to reduce different kinds of gaps. And also my commitment to educational transformation grew stronger when I had the big opportunity to lead the Colombians National Education Plan where we engaged over a million of citizens in

and educational policy. During this time, I also developed a deep interest in women's empowerment. So I have participated actively in promoting women's roles in technology through my membership in the Colombian Association of Women in ICT. And since 2018, I have the honor of serving as academic vice president at Ariadna where we met.

one of the Columbia's largest private universities. And here we are pursuing a very important vision about technology, how technology can enhance education and innovation.

Ryan Lufkin (03:21.029)
Mm-hmm.

Martha Castellanos (03:34.365)
Obviously, my journey led me to have my doctorate in education at Nova Southeastern University in the United States, where my research about chatbots in reading comprehension in Charles Lifford's middle, which is a military thesis in doctorate matters. So that's the thing, Ryan, inside.

Ryan Lufkin (03:55.845)
Your background is fascinating. I'm so excited to have you on the show.

Martha Castellanos (04:00.019)
Thank you.

Zach Pendleton (04:01.45)
That's fantastic. So I'm curious, Martha, one of my favorite things about this podcast, whether I'm co-hosting or not, is when guests share a favorite learning moment. Could you talk a little bit maybe about a time as a learner or as a teacher that has been really impactful for you?

Martha Castellanos (04:20.513)
Well, that is a tough one. However, I want to share with you that one of my most profound learning moments came during a presentation to a group of unemployed people here in Bogota. And I was presenting them all the Ariadna's portfolio of free choice courses designed to boost employability.

But after my presentation, one attendee raised his hand. I remember him very well. His name is Jason. And he asked me, Madam, do you think people can learn when they are hungry? That was a shocking moment for me, Zach. And I realized that a proper environment is needed to make the best of education.

So in Ariadna, we need to develop programs that not only provide the skills, but create paths to economic opportunities and obviously social mobility. Therefore, our success metric now go beyond enrollment and graduation rates to measure real impact on a student's lives and communities. So.

What makes this story even more meaningful for me today is that Jason is in his third year of systems engineering in Arendina and he became a very important student. Actually, he can combine his activities as selling candies in the streets with a study thanks to technology because of

the program, online program, his career is online. So this journey take us to be sure that economic aid and technology broke the condition of being hungry and now Jason can be successful and impact his community.

Ryan Lufkin (06:29.364)
I love that. It's so interesting because your background with history and architecture, that's one of the things we bonded over because I love history. I go deep into that. But understanding that kind of multi-contextual impact on education and how society evolves, I think is so interesting. I think your background, I also think that the evolution in learning that's happening in Columbia right now is really incredible. think there's some amazing things being done that really are kind of...

the most advanced in the world. I'm, I'm again, something we'll, we'll discuss more. I'm stepping over Zach's, Zach's turn to ask the question on this one.

Zach Pendleton (07:05.311)
man, yeah, I could talk all day about AI. So I'm really curious, following up on that story, which is incredible, how do you see artificial intelligence and online learning as a tool for serving populations that maybe have not had access to education previously in Latin America? And you shared one example here. Are there other places where you're seeing that used or where do you see the future of it going?

Martha Castellanos (07:35.617)
Well said, definitely we are having a huge opportunity in Latin America. We have a long and huge history about gaps, about poverty, hungry. So definitely AI going to give us a different and I think a proper way to develop our capacities to learn. So definitely we need to...

take into account that our population is different. Why? Because we have

social problems, violence problems, opportunity gaps, so we need to do something different. And actually AI and online learning are transforming educational system in Latin America. We have a lot of programs in Brazil, Mexico, Costa Rica, Argentina, and in Colombia, for instance, we have this program that I used to live, which is Computadores, Computers to Educate.

And I was there 10 years ago and I led it for eight years and we saw how technology can drive educational access. But also for instance in Ariadna, we are playing a very big part of the virtual education in Colombia. Actually we are the fourth largest private university with one of the most extensive offline academic offerings. So what that means for us?

We definitely need to know what is our population, what do they need, where are they? mean, are they workers that live in the rural areas and how AI and online education can...

Martha Castellanos (09:27.445)
get the best of them. We need to understand that they need still culture and also what the market is asking for education. mean, what are the skills that we need to develop? Because our industry is having a very nice moment. So we need in the education system to answer to those demands.

Ryan Lufkin (09:39.426)
Mm-hmm.

Ryan Lufkin (09:49.624)
Yeah, I like that you talked specifically about some of the differentiators, know, the uniqueness of students in Latin America, in Columbia specifically. But again, I know you have your own social media presence and I think you bring an openness to new technologies or different technologies or different means of engaging with students. What are some of the strategies or technologies that have been most effective for keeping your students engaged both online and offline?

Martha Castellanos (10:20.789)
Well, first we are changing our platform.

in order to get the best of our system. So definitely we need to know more about who is our student. So we need first to have all the information about the conditions of our student. For instance, if he's a woman, if she has family, she works, what happened with her? What are their needs? So we have an

active learning methodology that is basing challenge based learning problems which engage our students talking about what is she studying but at the same time which is his hair environment. So we need to listen if she's taking the best of her study and also how is she enhancing his challenges. At the same time,

We are doing something very important, Rajan, which is training our teachers. We definitely need to have a very rich synchronous learning experiences. What does it mean?

Ryan Lufkin (11:34.617)
Mm-hmm.

Martha Castellanos (11:43.233)
we look that our value-added pedagogical approach goes beyond the standard course and the materials and all the integrity things that we have about content. need our teacher take the best of the things that we already teach to our students, the standard course that we already have, and he makes like a merge with the actual

Ryan Lufkin (11:51.546)
Mm-hmm.

Martha Castellanos (12:13.199)
the real situation that we are having in the world, in Colombia, what is happening around the world, and how he has like a link between content, between theoretical things and the real world. So for us, it's very important. And the last thing is that we are, we have been implemented what we call the Ariandina Transformative Seal, which is an integrated approach that has

Ryan Lufkin (12:27.943)
Yeah.

Martha Castellanos (12:43.095)
the aspects, all the curricula that we have in the cross curricula for the first to the third year for all the courses. mean doctors, nurses, engineers, designers take all those courses and through workshops, projects, community engagement initiatives we develop in them some 21st skills.

like for instance creativity, innovation, critical thinking, ethics. So they develop just not disciplinary skills and knowledge, but also global and actual and the real needs that we have in the market, the labor market.

Ryan Lufkin (13:30.043)
Yeah, not only that, I've actually been using your course design. Ari and Dina has done some custom course design that's beautiful. Actually, if you don't mind, we'll add a link in the show notes and people can go out to the website and I think there's some screenshots there. But it's beautiful and it's very distinctive. And I think it's been...

Martha Castellanos (13:47.019)
Yes, please.

Ryan Lufkin (13:51.176)
kind of developed with feedback from your audience on how they want to navigate their courses and things like that. So I have been using it internally as a show and tell for our own development teams here at Instructure.

Martha Castellanos (14:01.493)
Thank you. It is great to hear it because, Ryan, also I want to share that we are trying to develop all the knowledge through a question.

that our students don't like they don't get involved to his own education. So first, we start with a question. I mean, what are we going to resolve with the knowledge that you are going to get? With all the skills that you are going to develop, what are you going to be better? How are you going to be better? Sorry. And how your community, our society, going to improve?

Ryan Lufkin (14:28.701)
Yeah.

Ryan Lufkin (14:41.32)
That's amazing.

Zach Pendleton (14:42.521)
Fantastic. Now, as a leader, I think in the world in online education, I'm wondering what advice you would have for a teacher or for a school who's just getting started in online education and online learning. What do they need to do to be successful?

Martha Castellanos (14:42.859)
Bye.

Martha Castellanos (15:03.797)
Well, first of all, we need to know our audience. I mean, we need to know our students. What are their needs?

which are the most difficult things for them. But also we need to know our labor market. What is the industry asking to us? So we need to diverse our academic portfolio. And we definitely need to change the evaluation sack because what we have been seeing is that some universities try to put the traditional and pedagogical

program into an online program, you know? And you cannot fix it. I mean, you have to transform it from scratch. I mean, you need to do a very different...

Ryan Lufkin (15:49.33)
Mm-hmm.

Martha Castellanos (16:01.323)
pedagogical model, a very different instructional model, which evaluation will be the most important part in order to get the learning of our students. So I think that is a very important thing. The other part is that we need to be flexible and to adapt to the needs of our students. That doesn't mean that if you don't have time to do your tasks, do your homework, don't worry, don't do them.

can't do that, no, not at all. I mean, we need to have times, we need to have a schedule, very clear times to give all the homework and to give the feedback and to have interaction with the students and with the professors. However, you can be flexible through the week. You can tell your students, if you cannot go to the synchronous class,

Okay, we can record for you and then you have all the week to see it. And most important thing, to do all the exercises. So definitely it's a very different way to teach, to learn when we are in an online model. So we definitely will need to change the instructional model.

Ryan Lufkin (17:21.558)
Yeah, and think that's specifically with Ariadne, you're serving students that are in both urban and rural areas, have varying degrees of internet access, right? Have varying degrees of technology access. And so you mentioned a little bit about how you support that, and how you have previously kind of helped to get technology into those students' hands. What do you do to actually help overcome those gaps for students that may struggle with even accessing their online courses?

Martha Castellanos (17:50.741)
Well, the first thing, Ryan, is that we are keeping an eye on them all the time. I mean, we have metrics that show us

Ryan Lufkin (17:59.745)
Yeah.

Martha Castellanos (18:05.601)
what are our students doing because of our infrastructure. We can do that. And also we deliver them some work at home and also the synchronous classes allow us to know what our students are doing. Also our professors are very eager to answer questions. They are very available to our students. So we keep in touch.

every time. We give them feedback two or three times per week. So it makes us that be very in touch every time. And also,

They have forums, have workshops, so they relate with us very easily. In addition, we are having a very disruptive model of research and also social mobility. they can participate, other students can participate to develop some research programs. So they are not just only studying with us, but at the same

time they are resolving problems, social, environmental problems of Colombia, of the world, of their communities, so they get very in touch with not only knowledge but also our university and the different problems of our society.

Ryan Lufkin (19:23.817)
Mm-hmm.

Ryan Lufkin (19:39.043)
That's amazing.

Zach Pendleton (19:39.99)
That's great. Are there technologies or tools that you're using to provide that? I mean, I'm thinking about reaching as wide a range of students as you do. there personalization tools or other things that you're using to reach students where they are?

Martha Castellanos (19:57.855)
Well, we are using our platform, which is a very important platform that are giving us that sense of what our students are needing and are doing. But also we are using tools, different tools of AI that keep us trying to find a better way to teach them. So right now we are using

all the kind of the suites of chat dpt, cloud, all those technologies that are helping us to enhance our teaching. But the most important thing, Zach, is that right now we are the pioneers of trying to explore that call.

thing that is the models of AI. I mean, I think it's not an easy way to understand them just working, but we are exploring them by technology approach. So we are trying to make the best of our teachers and actually we are training them with specific certifications in AI in order to they have different kinds of resources. Not only

for planning their courses, but also for evaluating our our students and obviously to put the simple problems in their own culture and their own environments. Why I'm talking about that? Because we're covering the 100 % of Colombia and this is a very important rural, we have a very important rural areas in Colombia. So it's very different

talking about the places that we have in the cafeteria area to the Amazonian places. So we need to understand their culture, their needs, and so we need to take advantage of the technology that we are using.

Ryan Lufkin (22:12.475)
Yeah, I think you told me the story about a woman from that was in a social program there who literally her her in her village they had built a tower with with a with a receiver so they could actually get wireless access so she could complete her her course. Was that you that told me that story?

Martha Castellanos (22:32.949)
Well, I told you a story about a community, indigenous community, which is called the Embera Catio. So.

we need to go there to a very small town in the rural area which is called Frontino. And this is an indigenous community that they don't have any kind of access to education. So we went there with online program but the first time we have to go to provide them not only computers but also

So, excuse me, I just don't know how the name of that in English.

Ryan Lufkin (23:21.083)
wireless internet or the

Martha Castellanos (23:23.429)
no no no let me let me check in in spanish

Zach Pendleton (23:26.837)
¿Qué es la palabra en español?

Ryan Lufkin (23:30.514)
Ha ha ha, Zach's is much better than mine.

Martha Castellanos (23:33.921)
Energy cells? So can we do it?

Ryan Lufkin (23:38.956)
yeah. Yeah, of course, of course. Yeah. If we should bring back up and I'll actually let's go back and I'll be like, so you were telling me a story about a village that, so we'll start with that. So you were telling me a story about a rural area that you were able to actually impact with technology.

Zach Pendleton (23:39.4)
All right.

Martha Castellanos (23:57.121)
So this was the Embera Catio community.

They live in a very small town in Colombia, is called Frontino. And they always have been a lot of difficulties to reach them with education. And so first of all, we wanted to train them as educators, as teachers for childhood education. So first of all, we have to went there to give them computers and also energy cells.

in order to charge the computers. So we need to provide them support not only to study but also to keep in touch with us because at the beginning we started program and

We didn't see them anymore. What happened? So somebody from our team has to travel a lot, six hours by car, and to get them and say, okay, guys, what is happening? We are waiting for you. What happened? And they say, okay, we don't know how to use the computer. So we realized that we have to start again.

Ryan Lufkin (25:14.525)
very at the very basics yeah

Martha Castellanos (25:16.831)
Yeah, and we understood that there is no one size fits all methodology for them. So we need to adapt to their culture. We need to adapt to their beliefs and their environment. And so in that time, we need to start again and say, okay, guys, this is the computer you need to go to our program in this way. And now let's keep in touch. So.

We knew that we cannot just say this is our methodology, this is the way that we train them and that's it. See you in one month, not at all. We need to be with them, to keep in touch with them. And right now we are having more than 20 educators and they first of all are starting with their own communities. So it's very important for us.

Ryan Lufkin (26:14.218)
It's amazing, like that way of building up education, even in the most remote areas.

Zach Pendleton (26:14.335)
That's incredible.

Zach Pendleton (26:18.589)
Yeah. And what a great example of your previous lesson to know your student, right? To really know who it is you're teaching and to work with them. I'm curious when, when you're doing something like that, I think I can't imagine trying to build a program like that. there government partners? Are there private partners that you're able to use to build initiatives like that? Or what's your experience in building those relationships and

Ryan Lufkin (26:24.202)
Exactly, Yeah.

Martha Castellanos (26:25.525)
Yeah.

Definitely.

Zach Pendleton (26:46.192)
And are there changes you'd like to see that make those types of relationships easier?

Martha Castellanos (26:52.437)
Well, these kind of strategies, most of them come from the public entities. So the academic secretary of education in Antiochia called us and told us, we have this community. Nobody wants to reach them.

because they very far from the urban area. Could you please help us? Do you have any kind of program? And at the beginning, they thought that we need to build something special. And we said, not at all, not at all. But that kind of...

programs start when we have a very close relationship with the communities. That was with people from the Antioquia's department. But we have a lot of programs that come from industry. So for instance, people in the health industry, have a special community and because we are leaders in health, they call us

and tell us, for instance, we need you to train this community in nursery. Can you start doing a special program for them? And so we start with them working with our program that we already have available for all the people in Colombia. So we need to understand what are their needs and we need to go deeper in Colombia to know more specific

the special needs that they have.

Ryan Lufkin (28:42.965)
Yeah. So we talked a little bit when we were down in Bogota, we talked a little bit about AI literacy and some of the kind of emerging challenges with social media that were impacting Columbia at the time. I think there was some music that was raising some concern in the, you know, and things like that. What does, you know, the increased role of AI and social media and these different technologies, how are they going to impact education in Columbia over the next five to 10 years?

Martha Castellanos (29:12.917)
Well, my God, very nice question. Because you talk about music and I don't want my daughter Martina can hear me because she loves that kind of music. So the thing is that...

Ryan Lufkin (29:15.755)
Hahaha

Ryan Lufkin (29:29.091)
Hahaha

Martha Castellanos (29:35.849)
We are seeing a lot of trends in Latin America. For instance, we are seeing that our industry is demanding professionals that can drive the change, the innovation, and to modernize different processes and technologies. But the traditional...

education maybe is not reaching that purpose sometimes. So definitely we need to develop the 21st century skills. And at the same time we are seeing that our industry in Latin America, especially in Colombia, is expanding into global markets. So they are creating new demands. So they require professionals with multicultural skills,

Ryan Lufkin (30:06.414)
Yeah.

Martha Castellanos (30:32.035)
English skills, understanding of international business practices, which is important for that matters. And also we are seeing that in Latin America, we are having a demographic change. What does it mean? That our young population is declining. I mean,

We are expecting a decrease by 3 % from today to 2030 of the young people. However, the online education in Colombia has been doubled in five years. So what is happening? We are having a different kind of population. So definitely the goals and the trends are that

Ryan Lufkin (31:02.351)
Wow.

Ryan Lufkin (31:12.592)
Mm-hmm.

Martha Castellanos (31:23.473)
online education is providing a lot of skills.

cross-cultural skills, use of technology, as innovation skills, as problem-resolved skills that in the traditional courses maybe you will not find them. So at the same time you are seeing how we are expanding a gap of knowledge because of young people are interested in using AI as a...

Ryan Lufkin (31:47.569)
Mm-hmm.

Martha Castellanos (32:00.355)
as entertainment, but they are not thinking about how AI can change my life, can put me in other countries, can relate me with key people around the world. And just we are having TikTok just dancing and singing, but not talking about the important things of the world. Definitely.

Ryan Lufkin (32:03.269)
Yeah.

Ryan Lufkin (32:23.365)
It's really micro learning in a lot of ways, right? And so if they train their feed to bring them those micro learning opportunities, they can really learn a lot there.

Martha Castellanos (32:31.861)
Definitely. And you know, these social media models are very interesting and we have to make the best of them. So if we use TikTok just to teach in one minute, I'm...

sure that they are going to get more information rather than if they stay in a class trying to not get in a sleep and very boring professor and this and that. So that is why making a connection with music you are saying what is happening with this music it's awful I mean the the lyrics are bad you know but at the end the rhythm the beat is the one that is getting

Zach Pendleton (32:57.221)
Mm-hmm.

Martha Castellanos (33:16.649)
the attention of our new generations. And not only our new generations, you know? In December, I was with my grandma, who she's going to get 90 years this year. She was like, my God, this music sounds very nice. I haven't heard it before. I okay, right. You know, 90 years old and a 12 years old girl, they are connected by the beat. So.

Ryan Lufkin (33:28.79)
wow.

Zach Pendleton (33:34.479)
Yeah.

Ryan Lufkin (33:34.595)
You just don't listen to the lyrics.

Ryan Lufkin (33:44.455)
Yeah.

Martha Castellanos (33:45.151)
Why don't we get the best in education of that kind of bit, of that kind of social media to make a difference in our students' life?

Ryan Lufkin (33:56.232)
Yeah.

Zach Pendleton (33:56.601)
That's such a great point. And I think you, you hit something where you said younger generations are very quick to adopt technology, even if they're not using it for teaching and learning. And sometimes educators struggle to see how they can use those tools to reach new students or to make their content more effective. you, what's been your experience in preparing teachers to use new tools to teach what they already know?

Martha Castellanos (34:16.737)
That's me.

Ryan Lufkin (34:23.815)
Mm-hmm.

Martha Castellanos (34:25.345)
Well, you know, I had a very interesting anecdote in 2023. What happened? When we started talking about this thing called HGPD, we just came from the pandemia. We didn't want to know anything new.

Right? But I told my teachers, okay, why don't we try to know what is Chatt GPT? Let's get into. And some of them were very resistant about it. And they told me, how it come, Marta, do you want to introduce us to the AI world? And I said, yes, of course. We need to know how it comes this new model.

So we started, we were one of the pioneers in universities to start the AI literacy training for our professors. So we developed, which we call My Self Card, which is a record, which is a, excuse me, I'm going to do it again. We develop, we create,

Ryan Lufkin (35:32.767)
So important, yeah.

Ryan Lufkin (35:46.218)
You're okay.

Martha Castellanos (35:49.757)
myself cards, which is a place where our teachers record their innovative classes with the use of new pedagogical strategies and then use of technology, AI or different tools. And we put them, all these new classes in Ariadna in microsite, which is an innovation.

education, microsite for teachers to put all the experiences that they have. And at the beginning, they were very resistant. They didn't want anything about AI or technology or new methodologies. However, we just have like one year and a half doing their best with workshops, with trainers, with conferences, and actually,

We already did more than 30 webinars about how can we use AI for enhanced teaching, researching, and also social mobility. So right now we are having a lot of awards for what our teachers are doing, Zach. And I want to talk you, I want to tell you about a very nice example

of the very important use, the effective use of the AI and the integration, for instance, in the healthcare education. We have a professor which is called Herman Acevedo. He works for the health faculty and he developed a program which is called SARAC, which translates something like home cardiac rehabilitation system. So what he did, he took

an innovative system which combines artificial intelligence, big data, machine learning, deep learning, and he create a program which try to teach their students how can we use the technology to the rehabilitation, the cardiac rehabilitation monitoring platform just online for patients that are needing

Martha Castellanos (38:15.679)
a help in their homes, but you cannot approach them. So he already won a very nice prize in a hackathon, and he, through the SARAC program, teach their students how AI can predict any kind of complication that the patient can have at home.

Ryan Lufkin (38:21.218)
Hahaha

Martha Castellanos (38:37.813)
with the monitoring, synchronized, and the rehabilitation sessions. And he put all the students to do the practices for the cardiac rehabilitations to the patients. So right now, we are having a lot of experiences like that. And we are winners of different awards in Colombia because of these kind of approximations.

Ryan Lufkin (39:03.13)
Well, and that's, it's so important to understand that those innovations come from accepting and embracing tools like AI, right? And so we spend a lot of time talking about AI literacy and overcoming the fear or the belief that AI is just a cheating tool, right? We've got to embrace it. It's not going away. How do we really start looking and exploring those innovative uses? And I love that, you know, Ariane Dina is actually driving that and is a leader in that because

you know, in November 30th of 2022, we all started in the same spot with AI across the globe with generative AI. You know, people were using large language, we using machine learning and things like that before, but really that's when we all started. And so to see, know, a school in Columbia really leading the globe in that kind of stuff is amazing to me.

Martha Castellanos (39:50.399)
Well, it has not a very easy path, Ryan, definitely. But our most important or our priority is the ethic use of AI and the data privacy for our students and professors. So right now we are trying, first of all,

Ryan Lufkin (39:54.375)
Hehehehehe

Martha Castellanos (40:18.251)
working with our transformative seal, what I already talk about, through ethics and critical thinking, integrate them into all the programs. So our students can understand that as we have technology advances, we need to have ethical considerations and critical analysis to use in a better way the technology. We are trying to develop in our students the sense

of being human, excuse me, to being digital humanisms. We need people that use technology but at the same time try to protect, to develop the human race. So we need to establish some roles and some main goals for the use of the AI in some guidelines. That is why we have initiatives like

the pentalog of the ethical use of AI. Also, we have a document that teaches us how to sit, to make the sit, excuse me, I don't know how to pronounce it, excuse me, to quote, excuse me. document, we develop a document to how to, sorry, I just forgot the name in English, to quote, right?

Ryan Lufkin (41:46.779)
to like site to site or to site to, yeah, yeah.

Zach Pendleton (41:46.849)
Yeah, that's right.

Martha Castellanos (41:48.563)
site sorry sorry sorry two sides is is very close to espanol citar it is called in spanish but i i was fear to to to trying to make a word in spanish into english so again we have other document which

Ryan Lufkin (41:57.722)
Yeah.

Zach Pendleton (41:58.903)
See you

Martha Castellanos (42:15.115)
teach our students, researchers, and our professors how to cite all the academic production, not only video, text, images, in a proper way when we are using AI. And at the same time, we are trying to go to our esteemed production in the transformative seal in order to...

teach our students how to use AI, not only in a very good way with ethical and responsible manners, but also how to make the best of the AI. I mean, how are we going to resolve our social problems? And also, which is one of the most important things for us, is we are trying to review all the curricula. We have more than 60 programs in Ariadna.

to review all of them and to see which of the processes of the labors that we already do as a human are going to be replaced. For instance, in the accountability matters or maybe when you are a lawyer, we have a lot of experiences that AI specialist models, already have this.

They are already trained to respond of what are the main goals in a specific case that is happening in one court, for instance, in New York. So instead of wasting time searching for that, AI already is making the work for you. So you as a lawyer, what are you going to do to give value added to your work? So we need to review all our curricula.

Ryan Lufkin (44:04.276)
Mm-hmm.

Martha Castellanos (44:08.115)
and try to reinforce it, what we are having already with AI and what are those skills and knowledge that we have to develop in our students and graduates.

Ryan Lufkin (44:20.051)
That's awesome. Well, that's a perfect place for us to wrap up. can continue to talk about that all day. This is such a transformative time in education and your passion for like addressing the challenges and taking them on, you know, across not just Latin America, but across the globe is amazing. So thank you so much for joining us, Martha.

Zach Pendleton (44:39.478)
Certainly, thank you.

Martha Castellanos (44:39.531)
Thank you for having me, Ryan and Zach. It was a pleasure and I'm sure that you two going to be in touch with us in Colombia, so you will be more than welcome. Thank you. Okay, see you then. Bye.

Ryan Lufkin (44:49.331)
I'm looking forward to coming back soon. Thank you, Martha.

Zach Pendleton (44:51.998)
Absolutely. Yeah, thank you so much. Take care. Bye.