Allow 'Treat ungraded as 0' in New Gradebook

[jeremy_stevens]

It would be very useful to be able to use the 'Treat ungraded as 0' feature of the current Gradebook in the New Gradebook, especially once the New Gradebook becomes the default in January 2020. I understand that not having this option seems to be by design, however there are use cases relevant to our tertiary institution that I would like to outline to see if they gather support among the Canvas Community. Please feel free to add your own use cases in the comments if this is relevant to you as well.

Our teaching staff use the Total column in the Gradebook to view how well a student is doing overall in their unit attempt. Not having the 'Treat ungraded as 0' feature in the future will mean that:

1. At the start of a teaching period – if say, 2/5 assignments have been completed by students and graded – the Total column will display a grade that is the scaled-up version of where they are sitting, working on the assumption that the other assignments are to be ignored. It would be possible for someone to achieve 100% in both completed assessments, and the Total column would then display a score of 100%. This is not an accurate reflection of where the student is at in terms of their overall completion of the unit and means the instructor has to do manual work, or ensure they set up assignment groups in particular ways, to try and figure out an accurate representation of student progress.

2. At the end of a teaching period – once all assignments have been completed by students and graded – the Total column will display a scaled-up grade for any students who have not completed any assignments or are missing grades. For these students, in reality, their non-submission is equivalent to a score of 0 – however in the New Gradebook, the Total column will not reflect this. This makes it difficult for instructors to review their cohort's progress and standing once the teaching period is complete, before those grades are to be formally sent to the SIS for release.

The only suggestion I've seen so far to mitigate against these issues is to use a Missing Submission policy.

How do I apply a Missing Submission policy in the New Gradebook?‌

This is not an adequate solution in our case.

In the case of example 1 above: at early stages of semester, students won't actually have 'missing' submissions – those submissions will be due in the future. A Missing Submissions policy would not apply.

In the case of example 2 above: Missing Submission policies do not apply to No Submission or On Paper assignments, LTI assignments, or assignments that do not have due dates set. We also cannot force Missing Submission policies at the account level, or via API when each individual Canvas course is created, to ensure consistency across our institution for such a crucial display issue. This would mean that even if it were an acceptable solution in other regards (and as per example 1, it isn't quite there in this case), we would be asking all of our institution's instructors to apply the same Missing Submission policy, and ensure that the exceptions to the policy as above also had 0 grades implemented where students had not submitted work. Not only is there scope for error here across large institutions such as ours, but this seems a disproportionate amount of effort to ask instructors to go to simply so that they can see an accurate reflection of their student's total grades for the overall unit.

This is a crucial issue for us, as we need instructors to be able to see how their students are doing throughout, and at the end of semester – this information informs moderation, future assessment design, learning outcomes, and reporting to faculty.

Others have suggested that the Missing Submission policy feature be amended (https://community.canvaslms.com/ideas/13954-apply-missing-submission-policy-to-all-assignment-types?...‌), and while I agree that it could use further flexibility, in our above case it would not quite solve our problems. It would be a simpler solution to allow the new Gradebook to set 'Treat ungraded as 0' to on or off instead. I understand that the Gradebook CSV Export is still calculating the Unposted Final Grade anyway – so the 'Treat ungraded as 0' score is still there in the system, just not being displayed at the UI level.

This idea has been developed and deployed to Canvas

For more information, please read through the Canvas Release Notes (2021-02-20) - Canvas Community 

[Steven_S]

 @matthew_metcalf ‌ and  @mrosenberg2 ‌ It is true that this is as important (or more so) for students as for teachers.  I have started adding zeros for missing assignments as soon as they are late, even when my late policy allows additional submissions.  This prompts students to actually submit those late submissions, by showing them the impact to their grade even if they were not paying attention. The option to let canvas do this automatically works well in the new gradebook.

Students actually do have access to the option to treat ungraded as zeros, but I find that they need to be told how important it is.  This is the default student view of the gradebook:

When students uncheck the box labeled "calculate based only on graded assignments" in the right-side menu their view updates to treat ungraded as zeros:

Instructors cannot turn it on for students, but we can take a moment to share instructions for where to look and a "test student" example of why it matters. 

[rosenbma]

This may be true if you have due dates attached to your assignments but it is not true if there are no due dates. I teach public speaking and students speak on different days and sometimes the schedule gets off because a student will go over time. If I set up canvas the way your suggesting then I will be spending the rest of my waking life trying to fix due dates for the 100+ students I have.  

Putting that aside, how do how calculate final grades if you, the instructor, cannot see whether the grade was counted or not? Having to manually put in a zero for every assignment that didn't have a due date is a pain staking task I would prefer to avoid. 

Suggestion? Advice? Or can we go back to the way it was? 

[Steven_S]

It's true, I do attach due dates to my assignments.  I also program the lowest scores in certain assignment groups to be automatically dropped, and canvas does show me which grades do not count by coloring the cell. How do I change the color for a grading status in the New Gradebook?   Plus, canvas correctly calculates the final grade for me, but of course, the final calculation is only correct because I have entered zeros for missing grades.

I also would not want to set an individual due date for each of 100 students, however I would not recommend letting canvas late policies set a "missing" score for assignments that are not submitted directly through canvas.

Instead, in those assignments for which you do not schedule due dates (or for which you accept submissions outside of canvas), I would wait until after the last student's submission is graded, and then use the "set default grade" option in the drop down menu for that assignment to automatically enter a zero in every blank that does not yet have a grade.  I use this setting in my F2F classes.  It will enter a real zero that will show up in both your gradebook and the student view as well. It will not toggle on and off.  As stefaniesanders‌ pointed out above: How do I set a default grade for an assignment in the New Gradebook? "Just remember not to enable the 'Overwrite already-entered grades' checkbox."

[rosenbma]

Basically you are telling me that canvas won't change back to the "treat ungraded as zero". And furthermore you're telling me to to go through each assignment (roughly 20 per student) for a hundred students and use the default grade....

Is this community forum attempting to enact change and have it make sense for the people using it, is it just a way for you to try to explain new canvas policies? 

In short, for a class like mine, your suggestions and the new canvas grade book add hours of work to the end of the term. 

I wish this conversation was helpful.  

[Steven_S]

Hi Matthew,

That was my mistake.  Please let me introduce myself.  I teach history at South Louisiana Community College, where Canvas is our Learning Management System.  I have learned, mostly through trial and error, how to make canvas do what I need in order to teach my classes.  I cannot cause the canvas team to return the function to "treat ungraded as zero," but we can all contribute to convincing them by voting in favor of this idea.  It is my understanding that you could chose to finish out the fall 2019 semester in the old gradebook, but that the new gradebook will become mandatory in mid January.

It is my experience that the changes we request do not instantly get implemented, so for now all I can do, is tell you what works for me as a way to avoid the hours of extra work you refer to.  Twenty times (not 20x100 just simply 20 times since you have 20 assignments) after the last grade is entered for each assignment, the drop down menu at the top of the assignment allows you to automatically and simultaneously add zeros to every cell in that assignment where there is not already a grade.  This setting is called "set default grade." It takes three clicks per assignment to enter all the zeros.  You do not need to add them manually one cell at a time.  I know that three clicks per assignment is more than "treat ungraded as zero" was for the entire gradebook, but it has the advantage of showing those zeros to students, which "treat ungraded as zero" never did.  This advantage caused me to use "set default grade" over "treat ungraded as zero" even in the old gradebook.  That feature works the same way it always has.

I would only recommend waiting until the end of the term for those assignments that have submissions pending until the end of term.  Entering zeros in each assignment as the semester progresses gives students a more accurate view of their grade, so there are no surprises at the end of the semester.  So unless you allow students to turn in every one of those 20 assignments on the last day of class, this will take three clicks here and three clicks there as assignments are completed.

[rosenbma]

Steven, 

Very kind of you to clarify, respond, and spend a fair amount of thought and time into helping/guiding me. 

I teach 5 sections of twenty students each, so it becomes a bit cumbersome at the end of term. Once asking canvas, they sent me to this forum to vote and comment, saying their staff regularly keeps up with what's going on. I assumed from your responses that you were staff trying to help me understand the "new ways." I guess I am unclear how this "community" works but am pleased you are a part of it. 

Having said that, I really appreciate you taking the time to help me. My mistake and apologies. Have a great end of term! 

Handshake in thought, 

MR 

[Steven_S]

 @rosenbma  Welcome to the canvas community Matthew!  I didn't initially realize you had just joined the canvas community.  Canvas describes the idea process detail here: How does the feature idea process work in the Canvas Community?

Basically, the votes give them a measure of demand and the discussion gives them an idea of how we would use the requested feature.  There are more than a thousand ideas open for votes, so some ideas take a while, but the discussions often include work-arounds that will help.  Sometimes canvas comments directly, but in general everyone you encounter is using canvas as a teacher / course designer / admin.

If any of your sections are covering the same course, with identical content and due dates, you could ask your canvas admin to combine your sections into one canvas course, when you set up for the next semester.  (I'm not sure it would save the grades if you did that for your current classes.) I've only combined sections that are video-linked with identical schedules, so I'm typically working with 5-7 active canvas courses.  I agree there are many parts that can feel cumbersome, especially if (like me) you do not have the assistance of a course designer.  I hope you find a solution that works for you

[tlainsco]

Yes, I tell my students to turn it on at the beginning of the term. Otherwise, since I drop one exam and several quizzes they always assume that they are doing better than they are at the end of the term. When they decide not to take the optional final, that grade becomes a 0 and the grade that was being dropped before returns, often dropping them by a whole letter grade. 

[tlainsco]

It seems they don't think about much. What were they thinking when they implemented a forced bell curve that reduces some student's grades as the only curving option? Who uses that? 

[tlainsco]

Exactly.