[ARCHIVED] Multiple part formula question

[ernest_goh]

How do I create Formula Questions in Quizzes.Next with multiple parts? For example:

Given the angle theta = `theta` degrees,

a) what is sine theta

b) what is cosine theta

I need this functionality DESPERATELY! and have been asking for it for years.

Thank you.

[James · Accepted solution]

 @ernest_goh , 

This functionality does not exist within the core Canvas product. You may be able to use an external homework system for math that would get at this kind of stuff.

The closest that Canvas has to this with the legacy Quizzes is a multiple fill in the blank, but those are problematic for grading math as you have to allow for all of the variations (they're not numbers, they're strings). This functionality will not exist with the current version of quizzes as Canvas is putting development time into the Quizzes.Next platform.

Quizzes.Next allows for regular expressions, but you're still trying to treat a string as mathematical content and that's an issue. At least you could put /^0?[.]866\d*/ to get 0.866, .866, 0.866025403784 from the student. Alas, it would also take 0.8669, which is not sin(π/3). Quizzes.Next is not as fully developed as the old version yet, but they're striving to reach feature parity. At this point, I wouldn't seriously consider it for math.

Multiple fill in the blank questions don't allow for randomization, though, so you would have to manually create all of those questions. 

If you want a formula question, then you can only ask for one of those values at a time. That may lead you to rethink how you ask the questions. For example, if you know the cos(π/6) is it necessary in the same question to ask about sin(π/6) ? Couldn't you mix it up a little?

Again, I know that's not what you want, just explaining what's possible.

[ernest_goh]

Thanks for the explanation, even though I'm disappointed. The example that I gave was a simple one to explain to readers the gist of my requirements. An actual questions could look like: Given the width, thickness and hole size of the plate as shown, determine the safety factor using a) the Goodman criterion, and b) the Gerber criterion. c) Which criterion is more conservative?

I just discovered that there are functions that return a list. Namely, reverse(...) and sort(...). When I tried to enter these as formulae to my question, the error message was that the precision for the answer could not be processed. Can Canvas quickly provide solution to calculate the precision of each member in a list so that these functions can be used to return multiple answers?

[James]

Alas, no.

Since the answer to a formula question must be a single number, the reverse() and sort() must be nested inside another function like max(), min(), or at(), which are scalar functions. Some of the functions operate on lists and only accept a list, while others accept a sequence within the function. For example, max(a,b,c) works, but at(a,b,c,index) won't. If you want to use at, you have to do something like at(reverse(c,b,a),2) all in one statement. A long time ago, before Canvas tried to patch numeric handling to work with scientific notation and allow for larger numbers, the separate expressions in the formula answers could be lists and you could build towards an answer.

If you want an example of how to use lists within a formula question, you might look at my blog post Looking Up Values in Formula Questions in the Teaching Math in Canvas group. It's not the only thing you can do, but there was a big void in explaining formulas when I wrote it. There's also the Canvas Formula Quiz Helper Functions pdf file that they asked my input on when writing after I complained about what they had out there wasn't what it claimed to be.

I had another problem I was writing just the other day where lists came in handy. I was asking the students to find the arclength of a value that had to be numerically integrated over a closed interval [a,b]. I use Maxima's quad_quags() function to do the integrations and then put them into a list. I used the parameters of the problem to calculate the index into the list (in reverse order), then used the at(reverse(),index) formula to get the right answer.

Through all of that, though, I still only get to ask for a single question at a time.

What I have done when I need multiple questions is to use Excel to create version, then import them into Respondus, which will export them into Canvas. In Canvas I create a question group that contains one of the questions so it appears random, but the questions are still tied together.

Canvas doesn't support question groups within question groups, and each question is independent of each other question.

If you need more advanced questions than Canvas can provide, their solution is for people to use an external tool (using the LTI standard) that would ask questions and then return a value to Canvas for their grade. That is beyond the capability of most people, which is partially why there are a lot of requests for enhancements to functionality needed for math & science questions..

2022-09-20 edit: I updated my original post from January 2019. The Teaching Math in Canvas group did not carry over to new community software and the link to the looking up values in formula questions was broken after the change. I've updated the link in case people want to find that blog post. None of the substance of my post was changed.

[dfleming1]

Online learning has forced me down the path of doing quizzes on Canvas, and the more I see of it the less I like.  This is a case in point.  Numerical questions and formula questions are the bread and butter of STEM courses and the fact that even very basic functionality like what Mr. Goh asked for is not possible within Canvas is very disturbing.  The Canvas quiz feature seems to be good only for middle school level history and the like.  Trying to use Canvas quizzes for college level STEM classes is an absolute joke.

[ynalezinski]

This limitation is a significant issue for me as well.   

[SBhattacharya]

so aptly put..... more I am using Canvas, more I am realizing how bad this LMS is

[freeman1]

Once again Canvas shows it is an essentially useless product.

Why is it that the developers never provide solutions to these very basic issues.

So sad.

[TristanUrsell]

This is a serious deficit in functionality 😕 

[caw]

Yes, I agree. I'm an accounting professor, and all our questions have multiple setups - for example, I provide the information to build a budgeted and an actual income statement, and the students compute the statements and nine different variances based on the data. It wouldn't do to have a separate setup for each question, because then they'd have to redo the intermediate calculations each time. I'm not going to have them two sets of income statements for each variance; that's ridiculous. All of my exam questions are like this - one setup with two to six questions.

[kumela_tafa]

I agree, I do teach physics and the formula question is a better option to use in quizzes. As most of you indicated it has a serious limitation as it does not have multiple step solution option and most, if not all, of our problems in physics are multiple step questions - for single step, the other quiz options are good enough. I hope the developers of this LMS will look into this and solve ASAP.

[fhernan]

I am extremely frustrated.
I teach analytical chemistry and other engineering courses, and we have to use this LMS just because our university staff decided this way. But Canvas is absolutely useless for STEM courses.

Something as simple as this cannot be done in a single question/problem:

Given a rectangle of width [x] and length [y]
a) Calculate the perimeter of the rectangle 2(x + y)
b) Calculate the area of the rectangle (xy)

These are two answers that are linked to the very same data! Why on earth do I need to write separate "formula questions" for each one?

C'mon, Canvas! You earn a lot of money from our universities! Do your part!

[pr_fi]

I'm as frustrated as anybody else in this thread.

Especially since a solution should be fairly from an IT-point, as I see it:

Let it be possible to specify a [randomVariable] at the Quiz level (in the description) as well as at the individual question-levels. If the randomVariable is specified at the Quiz-level, that value is used for all questions in the quiz except for the questions, where a question-level [randomVariable] is defined, in which case the Quiz-level value is overwritten by the question level value.

Frankly, I don't even see a strong need for a question-level value, if I have the possibility of a quiz-level value, and everything could be simplified accordingly without loss of useful generality if variables are specified at the quiz-level only.

It's hard to imagine, that a teacher wrote the use-case that let to the current implementation of "Formula questions".

[Sergio0P]

I also feel frustrated because I have this functionality with Sakai but now my university is moving to Canvas and I'm going to lose it...

[EmilyAsher]

Still nothing on this, Canvas? Why have you not been able to add it? The programming can't possibly be that difficult. 

[GB10]

I am also joining my voice since this would be an essential feature to help our students learn math and physics.  I would like to add interesting questions that are not part of available questions in the textbook that was purchased.

[MichaelMomot]

This would be a nice feature (even moodle has it).  This would allow complex values to be implemented as solutions, something that I find tedious to do right now because (using "Formulas") you have to pose the question, ask for the real part, then pose the question again and ask for the imaginary part.  When you are teaching with any course that has complex numbers (vibrations, control theory, complex numbers, linear algebra, most courses on engineering or science), this becomes a huge problem.  There are other types of problems that require multiple answers, such as vectors.  You could always use a multiple choice question, but I find multiple choice questions too easy for STEM students, and it is too easy to cheat.  With formula questions, you get a variety of answers, and that is great at thwarting any cheating.  Also, you are giving large hints by posting possible solutions, and that is not how life works.  In real life, you don't have someone who is saying, "Well, the answer could be this."

[fhernan]

It's been five years since the original question was posted, and all we get from Canvas Staff is silence. Really?
If you can't mantain it, don't sell it! We users deserve honest feedback, we are not dumb. Unfortunately, the decision to implement a certain LMS is seldom on the side of the teachers and professors, which are the final users. Such a shame!

[Chris_Hofer]

Hi everyone...

I would highly suggest someone should create a new Idea here in the Canvas Community within the Ideas and Themes area of this site.  That way, those that are interested in seeing this kind of feature implemented in New Quizzes will have a future chance to evaluate it for the Instructure engineering team to consider in their implementation roadmap.  Whoever might create a new Idea, please provide a link here in this topic so that people might be able to review it.

To read more about how to create a new Idea here in the Community, check out the section on "Ideas and Themes" at:

Instructure Community Guide - Instructure Community

Then, head on over to:

Canvas Ideas and Themes - Instructure Community

Click on the blue "View and Submit Ideas" button. On the next page, click on the blue "Submit an Idea" button.

I know this isn't an answer to your question, but I hope that it will help to get you started in the idea creation process.

[fhernan]

Dear Chris:

I think this has been already done:
https://community.canvaslms.com/t5/Canvas-Themes/Add-more-complexity-to-Numeric-and-Formula-Question...