[Gradebook] Grades without points

[jhurley]

I don't know why Canvas insists upon points for grading. Many of us are moving towards grading systems without points or letter grades (standards-based grading or specifications grading). Linda Nilson's book Specifications Grading has popularized a way of grading that does not use cumulative points, but bases the letter grade on the number and type of assignments completed successfully. Please, Canvas, give us a way to record student grades in a non-point format. I use High Pass, Pass, Low Pass, and Not Yet Passing as the grading scheme for my essays, but there is no way to indicate this in my students' gradebook, aside from in the comments section. I have to use an elaborate work-around to give my students a grade update.

[jhoskins1]

My pedagogical life has become crowdsourcing and upvoting . . . it's absurd, frankly. Constricted by bad design, designed by people who have no idea who their users are . . . I have been grading my way for 15 years, but because some kids somewhere designed this DB to fit THEIR OWN needs, the rest of us are forced to go their way. Canvas has wreaked havoc on pedagogy. It gives students this false sense of their grades . . . it causes so many more problems than it fixes. 

[laurakgibbs]

I am also very unhappy with the way that the Gradebook constricts and controls what we do as teachers, and I'm especially concerned since my school just announced that we are going to the new Gradebook this spring. I have managed to escape the red missing/late labels in the old Gradebook, but now I am going to have to figure out how to cope with them in the new Gradebook. I keep hoping they will put in a global switch so I can just turn them OFF. I don't use scare tactics as part of my grading, and the use of red-ink labels is nothing but scare tactics. I am really hoping there will be a global option to turn those labels off before my school makes me move to the new Gradebook this spring... 

[jhurley]

Laura, Thanks for raising this point. I agree. There are over 10,000 educators who are actively trying to throw out traditional grading on the FB page Teachers Throwing Out Grades. Canvas needs to offer options for those of us who do not want to use grading in a punitive or point-based manner.

Jennifer Hurley

Associate Professor of English

Ohlone College, Newark Campus

www.professorhurley.com

[don_quick]

I use 100 points for all assignments. 

This posting has been interesting reading in alternative grading and Canvas' lack of response to the needs of a growing group of educators. We switched to Canvas because of a PTB mandate at about the time this posting started. However, for some reason I never saw this posting until I did a search for all my favorite new idea topics, besides the ones I was following, and found this one.

The method I use doesn't address all of these issues but it at least gets rid of points and you can create a Scheme with words in it instead of Letter Grades if you like. Here's what I do:

It has always fascinated me that the assignments are based on points, and the weighting and total grade is a percent. So, I made all my assignments a % by setting the points to 100 and I tell the students that 100pts equals 100%. Thus, the entire course is based on percent. I personally like the letter grade scheme using the CSU standard for using plus and minus grading and it gives the flexibility and the hint of external motivation that goes with grades. And this change to all 100 point assignments and the use of the % weighting system in Canvas, it fits me well. I would like to get rid the the "pts" label someday but it's livable.

No, it doesn't get rid of numbers entirely but everyone understands the relationship between % and letter grades (I publish the Scheme in the Syllabus) and you don't have to have Canvas ignore a three year old idea that has almost 300 votes. 

Don Quick

Colorado State University

[don_quick]

I was thinking about the use of your words: High Pass, Pass, Low Pass, and Not Yet Passing, in grading. I believe if you created a Scheme:

High Pass: 100%to 75%

Pass: <75% to 50%

Low Pass: <50% to 25%

Not Yet Passing: <25% to 0%

OR use the traditional %'s

High Pass: 100% to 90%

Pass: <90% to 80%

Low Pass: <80% to 70%

Not Yet Passing: <70% to 0%

And let Canvas do the math in coming up with a total, that you would easily approximate your needs without the work of the other suggested methods. (Note: you do have the change each assignment.) Also, remember to use the midpoint number when entering grades like on the lower scheme for a High Pass, enter the grade as 95, then the Canvas Math will work and give you the correct Total Score. The Total Score will have the % and the correct words associated with it. 

Don Quick

Colorado State University

[don_quick]

Another reason why I like using the traditional +- letter grading scheme is that CSU uses, is that someday Canvas will fix their letter grade entry system so the when you enter a Letter it will set the correct %. 

CSU's scheme is:

A+ 100% to 96.67%

A < 96.67% to 93.33%

A- < 93.33% to 90%

B+ < 90% to 86.67%

B < 86.67% to 83.33%

B- < 83.33% to 80%

If you enter an "A", Canvas will give you a % score of 95.67 instead of the correct 95. They don't take the mid-point of the grade range. This error of course adds up over several assignments and you could end up with an unexpected Total Grade. So, you have to put the correct % in not the Letter grade.

By the way if they ever fix it, it will work with your High Pass, Pass, Low Pass, and Not Yet Passing Scheme also, but right now if you entered a "High Pass" it would convert it to 100 in that example I used in the other post. But what is really odd is that it if you entered "Pass" it would convert it to 89%. 

Don Quick

Colorado State University

[laurakgibbs]

I am glad your comment made this topic pop up for me,  @don_quick ‌... although I will confess that those decimal points just strike terror into me, ha ha, which is why I do not use percentages-out-of for anything. I just wrote a book chapter for a forthcoming book on ungrading in higher ed, and I shared the chapter here at the Community:

Let's Talk about Grading (9): Book Chapter

I don't really expect the Gradebook is going to change, but I am glad that I can manage to make my system work with/despite the Gradebook as it is now. 

🙂

#ttog‌

[don_quick]

I skimmed through your chapter (I believe you had mention it above) and yes that actually is the ultimate goal and I wish we could make the change and have the tools to design our courses the way we want them. If you haven't taken their survey yet, do so and take the full one. You'll see a couple of questions on letting the instructor have the tools to design the course the way they want it, not how Canvas expects it to be designed. We'll see. 

With these posts, hope I have given the community some ideas that they might do to make a step toward that goal you outline in your book using what we have today. Also, what I have learned in the years since I first used WebCT 1.0 is that all faculty have different needs and will do things in different ways. So what I do is bend the tool to my needs and help faculty bend it to their needs. 

I use a constructivist learning process for my courses that are really a series of assignments. I manipulate Canvas Assignment tool to fit my needs. For instance one assignment set might look like this:

Assignment #1 - Problem Statement (5% of Total)

Assignment #1 - Problem Statement – Guidelines
This is set to “No Points” and Not Graded. I just spell out the guidelines for the assignment. For those students who like the rigid rubric I tell them this is the rubric just an informal one and I think it works as a good constructivist method. It gives the students room to grow and be creative but the controls needed to stay on topic and learn by doing something of interest to them. This should work well with most adults and down to middle schoolers as they should be able to think reflectively and constructively.

Assign 1a - Draft Problem Statement - Private Drop-Box
I put 100 %points on this but set it to “Do not count this assignment towards the final grade” and it is Complete/Incomplete. I use this so that the student can submit the assignments drafts and I can give them feedback without affecting their grade. After many iterations or just one, depending on their needs how many times it takes for them to master it, I mark it Complete. Canvas works well in this process if in each iteration you mark it Incomplete, then the next submission shows in your “to do” list. This is also the only one with a due date in Canvas which I tell them it’s a “due week”. And suffers Canvas’ goofy color and Late notification scheme. I just tell the students to ignore it. Because of the iterative process, we need to get started on the process but who knows how long it’s going to take.

Assign 1b - Problem Statement - Discussion Posting
Then it is shared with their fellow students by posting it on Discussions with no due date because it’s controlled by the mastery assignment 1a (and yes I wish I could control assignment access in Canvas like you can Modules). It is graded and set at 100 %points for a group reflection. It is the only one of the set that is graded (I use the CSU +-ABC system, but as I showed you can change the wording), and goes directly toward the final grade, in this case is 5% of it, as noted by the weight set above in the group set. I wait until the students have all had a chance to review them here and in the Assign 1c private ranking. These are adults and we follow the Kahn barn building seminar process. Not sure how this would go with children, but middle schoolers should be able to start thinking reflectively and constructively and use the Kahn process effectively. You have to use Canvas’ % and points here to get the accumulative math correct toward the final “grade.” And more feedback can be given at this point also. But it would be nice to be able to not have it posted for the students, just the quality indicator “grade.” And no, I do not use rubrics just the Guidelines and I consider the discussion here and the private rankings in the Assign 1c below. Since it’s a mastery iterative process most get A’s.

Assign 1c - Problem Statement: Review Rankings - Private Drop-Box
The ones of interest they rank according to their version of a “quality” assignment. I do require at least five as a slight external motivator and to give them something to rank against, but this has no points on it and is entirely voluntary. Most see the value in this (again adults, but middle schoolers should be able to see it given the chance). It is private only I see their rankings. I use these to consider my grade and feedback. But mostly it’s to help the students in their own reflective constructivist learning process about the assignment.

So, I think Canvas’ grading system can be manipulated to fit most any body’s style of teaching and grading from the behaviorist to the constructivist. And yes, there are a few things that they could improve on to make it even better.

Don Quick

Colorado State University

[laurakgibbs]

In my case, Canvas's grading system will not work because every grading scheme is based on a percentage-out-of approach (i.e. a deficit model based on what students did not do), which is incompatible with a system in which students choose what they want to do from a wide range of choices. There is no expectation in my classes that students would do all the assignments. So, while they do get a 100% on every assignment they complete, their progress is measured based on work completed. I don't even know for sure how many points are possible in my class; I've never sat down and calculated that number because it is irrelevant, and student grades in my classes are not percentage-out-of.

Luckily, though, I can display points without a percentage throughout the semester, and that's all my students need to know. Then, at the end of the semester, I manually enter the students' later grades into our Student Information System.

The day that my school requires me to use a Canvas Grading Scheme is probably the day I will have to quit. But then since there are still faculty who resist using Canvas at all, I don't think they are ever going to actually require all faculty to use a Canvas Grading Scheme. Thank goodness 🙂

[don_quick]

Nice design. Sounds like you have adapted as best you can. 

I wanted to make clear, CSU doesn't require this grading, I just chose to do mine this way. In part, because part of my job is to help faculty teach better, and I could never spring the ultimate design (your class) on them, they would rebel. Maybe someday we'll get there, baby steps. CSU is very open to letting the faculty teach the way the feel is best. Thanks for the perspective and chat.