Banner-fed courses vs. manually created courses

[RyanFino]

Hey all,

Is there any functional differences between Banner-fed courses (as in, ones imported automatically from a Banner load) and courses manually created from scratch within Canvas?

Functionally, they should operate the same, right? If we had created a custom role named Librarian in Canvas, that role could be assigned to users within a Banner-fed course and a manually created course, correct? The default roles (such as Observer, Designer, etc.) could have their permissions modified the same way even if our Canvas instance was exclusively using Banner-fed courses, right? The speed-grader permission could be added to the Observer role, for example? 

Additionally, could people NOT imported directly from Banner be added to a course later on? Or will the Banner load remove that person (or prevent it altogether) at the next subsequent load? As in, if we had a Librarian role, could we add someone NOT enrolled or teaching the course into that course with the Librarian role?

Sorry, this became a few questions! Very thankful for any help on any or all of them though!

Thanks,

Ryan

[Chris_Hofer · Accepted solution]

Hi @RyanFino ...

Full disclosure, I used to work for a Technical College in Wisconsin (it's been a few years since I left there) that had (and I believe still has) Banner as their SIS (Student Information System).  While I did not work directly with Banner and know the inner workings of it, as a Canvas LMS admin for that school, I did work with one of our IT guys occasionally when I had Banner-related questions and issues.  So, I can (hopefully) help to answer some of your questions.

Is there any functional differences between Banner-fed courses (as in, ones imported automatically from a Banner load) and courses manually created from scratch within Canvas?

---

Generally speaking, no.  There shouldn't be any major differences in a course's functionality when comparing if it was created from Banner or if it was created manually by you.  If a new course shell was created from Banner, it most likely will have a some sort of data filled in for the "SIS ID" field within the Canvas course "Settings" page.  But, if you are creating a course manually, the "SIS ID" field isn't filled in automatically, and you'd have to populate this.  Also, there may be other course "Settings" that come over from Banner such as the sub-account it's placed in, the term that it should go to, start/end dates, and format...as some examples.

Functionally, they should operate the same, right? If we had created a custom role named Librarian in Canvas, that role could be assigned to users within a Banner-fed course and a manually created course, correct? The default roles (such as Observer, Designer, etc.) could have their permissions modified the same way even if our Canvas instance was exclusively using Banner-fed courses, right? The speed-grader permission could be added to the Observer role, for example? 

---

With your custom Librarian role, you can assign that role to both Banner-created course shells and also to manually created courses.  For example, at the College where I used to work, we had a custom role called "Viewer" which was based on the "Teacher" role type with a bunch of permissions turned off.  We manually enrolled people in courses in our "Master Term" ... these courses were also manually created by my team ... not by our Banner SIS.  And yes, you can modify those permissions of the default roles if needed as well.

---

Additionally, could people NOT imported directly from Banner be added to a course later on? Or will the Banner load remove that person (or prevent it altogether) at the next subsequent load? As in, if we had a Librarian role, could we add someone NOT enrolled or teaching the course into that course with the Librarian role?

---

Yes, this should be possible.  But, just so you can verify this on your own, I would suggest that you set up either a sandbox course or do some testing in your school's Canvas "test" environment.  What you could do is enroll someone with the "Librarian" role in a course, and then coordinate with your IT person to send a few users from Banner to that course via SIS import.  Then, once that is done, check the enrollments of the course to see if the "Librarian" user has been removed or not.  This should give you a good idea of how things would typically work moving forward.

Again, this it's been a few years since I've worked with anything related to Banner, and the setup that I was somewhat familiar with may differ than what you have at Seton Hall University.  So, if you are not the IT person who handles data from Banner to Canvas, you might want to start having those conversations.

I hope this info will be helpful for you in some way...for what it's worth.

Take care...be well.

[Chris_Hofer · Accepted solution]

Hi @RyanFino ...

Full disclosure, I used to work for a Technical College in Wisconsin (it's been a few years since I left there) that had (and I believe still has) Banner as their SIS (Student Information System).  While I did not work directly with Banner and know the inner workings of it, as a Canvas LMS admin for that school, I did work with one of our IT guys occasionally when I had Banner-related questions and issues.  So, I can (hopefully) help to answer some of your questions.

Is there any functional differences between Banner-fed courses (as in, ones imported automatically from a Banner load) and courses manually created from scratch within Canvas?

---

Generally speaking, no.  There shouldn't be any major differences in a course's functionality when comparing if it was created from Banner or if it was created manually by you.  If a new course shell was created from Banner, it most likely will have a some sort of data filled in for the "SIS ID" field within the Canvas course "Settings" page.  But, if you are creating a course manually, the "SIS ID" field isn't filled in automatically, and you'd have to populate this.  Also, there may be other course "Settings" that come over from Banner such as the sub-account it's placed in, the term that it should go to, start/end dates, and format...as some examples.

Functionally, they should operate the same, right? If we had created a custom role named Librarian in Canvas, that role could be assigned to users within a Banner-fed course and a manually created course, correct? The default roles (such as Observer, Designer, etc.) could have their permissions modified the same way even if our Canvas instance was exclusively using Banner-fed courses, right? The speed-grader permission could be added to the Observer role, for example? 

---

With your custom Librarian role, you can assign that role to both Banner-created course shells and also to manually created courses.  For example, at the College where I used to work, we had a custom role called "Viewer" which was based on the "Teacher" role type with a bunch of permissions turned off.  We manually enrolled people in courses in our "Master Term" ... these courses were also manually created by my team ... not by our Banner SIS.  And yes, you can modify those permissions of the default roles if needed as well.

---

Additionally, could people NOT imported directly from Banner be added to a course later on? Or will the Banner load remove that person (or prevent it altogether) at the next subsequent load? As in, if we had a Librarian role, could we add someone NOT enrolled or teaching the course into that course with the Librarian role?

---

Yes, this should be possible.  But, just so you can verify this on your own, I would suggest that you set up either a sandbox course or do some testing in your school's Canvas "test" environment.  What you could do is enroll someone with the "Librarian" role in a course, and then coordinate with your IT person to send a few users from Banner to that course via SIS import.  Then, once that is done, check the enrollments of the course to see if the "Librarian" user has been removed or not.  This should give you a good idea of how things would typically work moving forward.

Again, this it's been a few years since I've worked with anything related to Banner, and the setup that I was somewhat familiar with may differ than what you have at Seton Hall University.  So, if you are not the IT person who handles data from Banner to Canvas, you might want to start having those conversations.

I hope this info will be helpful for you in some way...for what it's worth.

Take care...be well.

[RyanFino]

Hi @Chris_Hofer ,

Thanks so much for your detailed responses! I know my questions were long winded and all over the place, but this has been super helpful to read. I have a few follow-up questions, if you don't mind!

All of the stuff about banner-fed vs manual courses makes sense, thank you for that.

For the custom role stuff, there is no difference between the default roles and custom roles as far as functionality goes, right? If a faculty member in a course can add a person as an Observer, for example, they can also add them as a Librarian after that role is created, correct? And just to confirm what you're saying: the speed grader permission can be added to a default role like Observer, yes? (I know you said you don't work with Banner anymore, and didn't work with it directly when you were with the Tech college, but you still use Canvas in your work now?)

For the part about adding people later on, that makes sense too. And yeah, we are in a bit of an interesting situation where we can't exactly check within our own environment right now. It's complicated 🙂

Thank you so much again, I appreciate your help!

[chriscas · Accepted solution]

Hi @RyanFino,

I can help answer some of your role questions.

For the custom role stuff, there is no difference between the default roles and custom roles as far as functionality goes, right?

That is generally correct, yes.  Custom roles will have no inherent different form the base role they are created as.

If a faculty member in a course can add a person as an Observer, for example, they can also add them as a Librarian after that role is created, correct?

There is a little variance here depending how you set up permissions.  If a teacher has the permission to add a TA, then they'll be able to add someone as any custom role based on TA.  The permission to add students, or other roles may be different from a TA, or observer, etc though, so it's hard to give a definitive answer here without knowing the exact permissions you have set up, and what base tole a Librarian would have in your case.

And just to confirm what you're saying: the speed grader permission can be added to a default role like Observer, yes?

---

You can change the permissions of default roles to a certain extent.  Some things are just inherent to certain base roles (just only student-based roles can make submissions and be listed in the gradebook).  Other things are locked out from certain base-role types (you'll find the permission options will be grayed out and unable to be changed).

I hope this helps a bit!

-Chris

[Chris_Hofer]

Hi @RyanFino ...

You're welcome!  I am glad I could help you out!  I think the answers that @chriscas provided to you are right in line with what I would have told you.  Although I work remotely from Arizona for an arts college in Detroit, Chris (who works for a university in Michigan) and I have chatted multiple times, and I feel confident with the answers he's given you.  You're in good hands!