How Canvas works with WileyPLUS

[KevinMarasinghe]

I have had this issue for some time now, and working around it has really been a pain.

I want to know how to create assignments in WileyPLUS that can count as extra credit.

In the WileyPLUS system, it is impossible to set a "points possible" in the sense that a grade will be calculated out of some arbitrary value. Instructors can vary the credit assigned to given problems, but the scoring is never allowed to be greater than 100%. This makes assigning extra credit from inside their system difficult.

From the Canvas side, it is easier as the number of points possible in an assignment is a value you can set separately from how the assignment calculates points allotted to its various parts. However, something about how WileyPLUS communicates with Canvas prevents me from doing this.

If I want to create an assignment that counts as extra credit, the "points possible" value in Canvas should be zero. Any and all points scored on the assignment are added directly to the net grade for that assignment category, without incrementing the total number of points possible over all assignments in the category.

However, if I do that, something about how Canvas and WileyPLUS talk to each other prevents WileyPLUS from reporting a value to Canvas. Some mechanism in there insists that total credit allotted CANNOT be greater than 100%. If there is a mismatch between the points possible in a WileyPLUS assignment and the points possible on the Canvas side, it seems WileyPLUS takes the Canvas value as default and reports a total number of point ONLY UP TO THAT VALUE.

I don't know why this is as it defies common sense to program it this way. The points possible number in Canvas shouldn't affect how a score from a third party source is recorded. My workaround thus far has been to keep the Canvas points possible as the WileyPLUS value until everyone has submitted an assignment, then to change the Canvas points to zero. This is sloppy as usually extra credit assignments don't have due dates so I cannot safely override in this fashion unless I stipulate a due date or wait until the end of the term, both of which are hostile to students who either have a due date on extra credit or cannot see their grades correctly calculated (lower than they should be.)

If anyone has any workarounds here, or is a WileyPLUS rep who understands this interaction with Canvas and can make changes, please let me know. Thanks!

[Gabriel33 · Accepted solution]

I don't use WileyPLUS, so there maybe there's a different solution, but within Canvas, a different way to add extra credit is to have assignment group weights adding up to more than 100%.

If you don't already use weighted assignment groups, please check here for instructions: How do I weight the final course grade based on as... - Instructure Community - 746.
The simplest way to do it, if you are not already using assignment groups, is to keep all your current assignments in a single group that has a weight of 100%, and then have the WileyPLUS assignments inside an "extra credit" group worth, for example, 10%.

Note that it is essential that at least one of the assignments in the extra credit group must be worth more than 0 points (and probably all of them should be worth more than 0 points).

See also the "Create Extra Credit using Weighted Assignment Groups" section in How do I give extra credit in a course? - Instructure Community - 1253

Please let us know if you have any issues.

[Gabriel33 · Accepted solution]

I don't use WileyPLUS, so there maybe there's a different solution, but within Canvas, a different way to add extra credit is to have assignment group weights adding up to more than 100%.

If you don't already use weighted assignment groups, please check here for instructions: How do I weight the final course grade based on as... - Instructure Community - 746.
The simplest way to do it, if you are not already using assignment groups, is to keep all your current assignments in a single group that has a weight of 100%, and then have the WileyPLUS assignments inside an "extra credit" group worth, for example, 10%.

Note that it is essential that at least one of the assignments in the extra credit group must be worth more than 0 points (and probably all of them should be worth more than 0 points).

See also the "Create Extra Credit using Weighted Assignment Groups" section in How do I give extra credit in a course? - Instructure Community - 1253

Please let us know if you have any issues.

[KevinMarasinghe]

Thank you for your quick response! That's an interesting idea. I do use assignment groups as it eliminates the headache of having to scale point totals by hand. The one issue that may arise is that students (and myself, admittedly) think of extra credit assignments according to their type, and not as part of a different group of extra credit assignments. When they look at their grades they will want to see an extra credit homework assignment grouped with their other homework assignments, an extra credit quiz grouped with the other quizzes, etc.

What I really want to know is why the communication on points possible between WileyPLUS and Canvas acts the way it does. It is not consistent with the other behaviors I know of. It would help if I could identify which "side" is responsible for trimming the score to fit under 100% of Canvas points. Do you know if Canvas behaves this way with other 3rd party clients?

(Now that I think about it, the quizzes we use are a 3rd party software, it seems like a general purpose quiz engine that our institution has customized. I have no trouble setting the points for extra credit quizzes to zero, those results enter the grade book correctly. So the problem is likely on the WileyPLUS side, but I don't understand why the Canvas number is overriding the Wiley value. It feels like it should be a switch I can toggle somewhere.)

[Gabriel33]

Again, I can't help with WileyPLUS (and even less with your institution custom quizzes), but I have a couple of possible suggestions to help add optional extra credit items within assignment groups.

They do treat the extra assignment slightly different in how they count for grade, but in each of them it is still possible to have 100% marks even when you don't submit the "extra" assignments, and submitting them can only help your grade.

1. Keep the total sum to 100%, but use the "drop lowest score" rule for the extra credit assignment:
   
   (repeat this for each assignment group that has an extra credit item)
   
   
2. Let the total sum be over 100%, and then you can use the "drop lowest score" rule for something else if you want:
   

I prefer the first one mainly because this last one, makes the grade from the groups drop if the student doesn't do the extra assignment. That is just a perception issue, since the total grade being over 100% will then correct that.

[chriscas · Accepted solution]

Hi @KevinMarasinghe,

I can't really answer for WileyPLUS specifically (even though we do have their integration set up, we don't really support it locally), but can speak about external tools in general.  I believe the most common way grades are passed back from an external tool to Canvas (or any other standard learning management system) is by percentage.  So what generally happens is that an external tool passes back a percentage score for an assignment, then Canvas takes that percentage and multiplies it by the points possible for the assignment (in Cavas) to derive the points awarded in the gradebook.  This is, I think, why you have trouble setting the points to 0 in Canvas, as any percentage multiplied by 0 will be 0).  Some vendors may have their own points/gradebook, which can be hard to keep in sync with an LMS, and may try to sync things differently form the method I described here, but this is at lest a general overview.

Based on your other responses, I do think that adjusting your assignment group weights (as @Gabriel33  suggested) may be the best solution.  You could have a while separate extra credit group, but you could also just add a percentage to your regular categories (instead of: quizzes 25%, homework 25%, project 50%, you could have: quizzes 25%, homework 27%, project 50%).  The important thing about this method is that your total needs to be more than 100%, with the overage essentially being the extra credit available.

I hope this extra info may help a bit!

-Chris