New Discussion board format as of Fall 2024 is terrible

[wturgeon]

I absolutely HATE the new discussion board format.  It hides replies and each time you enter a board you have to hit expand threads to see them.

We lost the black dots that indicated unread posts so now you have to read carefully to catch the unread posts and replies only show up if you open them.  

This discourages participation and makes it really hard to follow conversations. The old system worked JUST FINE.  At the very least, I as instructor should be able to set global parameters for my course such as going from older to newer as a sort, always showing all replies, and clearly indicated the unread ones with a dot or something. 

This new system is unduly complicated and off-putting.  For those of us who actively use the discussion forums as a major part of our class, this is a terrible step backward.

Wendy Turgeon

St. Joseph's University-NY

[LillianMarrujo]

This Fall, with a full load of classes, New Discussions problematic features have slowed me down so much it has thrown a wrench into the central feature of my 100% asynchronous courses: the student to student and instructor to student conversations on on the course content. Search does not work. I go to search on a student's name and I get "1/22" (there are NOT 22 instances) and then I get stuck in a loop between two instances. I have to search each page separately. So I don't actually know if the search is not working or if I am on the wrong page. The program also jerks around on the screen and makes it hard to easily read quickly. 

[wturgeon]

I agree with you 100% Lillian.  This new version is not at all user-friendly and discourages students from responding.

[wturgeon]

And now I discover that it will only allow a certain number of replies to a thread before he refuses to do so.  Example:  I post a question and Sarah responds.  John and Mary respond to her and then Becka responds to John. I try to go in to respond and the system rejects my ability to post my response there.  This discourages any real conversation...

[DavidStevenson]

The new Discussions are maddening. We need to have course-level control over Discussion settings, including the option to have threads permanently expanded.

[wturgeon]

I completely agree.  Each time I go in, I have to click again to expand the threads.  Students are not going to do this and thereby miss posts from their fellow students and the instructor, as well as wonder if their post showed up.

[RhondaTrautman]

I agree 100%. This new format is a step backwards. It is not as user friendly and the fact we now have to "expand" threads and mark discussions as "read" adds a lot of extra work and confusion. Please go back to old format.

[lshulman]

Re: need to mark discussions as "read" (rather than have it automatically changed?)

Previously, there was a course setting to have this done automatically or manual. I always used manual because automatic would change it based on simply displaying it on your screen. I found that was not long enough to actually read it. I needed to control when it changed.

But yeah, there are several settings that should be course level or at least user level controlled vs. Canvas default:

"Read"

"Expand/collapse threads"

"Sort order"

(Just off top of my head)

[wturgeon]

Quick update:  the black dot representing unread does appear but it is obscured by the circle image of the student so is harder to see than in the old one.  Because they have to hit a lot more options, my students continue to miss posts, lose their own, and be confused.  

[doldham1]

I have the same reaction to the new design. Another aspect that makes it even more maddening is that Canvas now puts additional posts on a second page, so you have to click through to see all the posts. Each time you click from one page of posts to the next or previous page, you have to expand all the threads again. It is extremely aggravating and adds significantly to my work load (not like I don't have other things to do).

As someone pointed out in a different thread in this forum, SpeedGrader doesn't show who the student responded to. So here's a scenario I've encountered repeatedly just grading one discussion:

I need to check who a student responded to. I go from SpeedGrader to the discussion (open in a separate tab). Must Expand Threads before I can see replies. Search for the student. No results. Now I have to go to the bottom of the page, click on "2" for the next page of posts, Expand Threads again, search again. All this for something that took a single search in the old Discussions. I'm having to do this multiple times for every discussion I grade.

I don't understand what logic there is in not having all posts on a single page, in addition to the points already made about expanded threads.

[lshulman]

While I too have a lot of issues with the new discussion format, I have found an easier way to do what you want to do when in speed grader for a discussion (btw, the old format also did not show in speed grader who the student had replied to):

I do use two tabs, like you do: one in speed grader the other in the discussion. Though, in the discussion window you can use "search" feature in upper left to more quickly find any user you are looking for. Then you can click on "go to reply" and the pop out frame will open on the right side where you can then see the post/reply in context with the post it is a reply to along with other replies in that thread. 

[barbara_filkins]

Agreed

Apparently Canvas allowed a developer to design this -- not an instructor. Again, to my post of several days ago -- where the hell is Canvas in this discussion?

[smuir1]

I absolutely agree, the new format is AWFUL! There was absolutely nothing wrong with the previous format.
The default should be Expanded Threads and not collapsed. 
You did away with sorting by "unread". Now I have to expand threads and slowly and carefully look for red dots of posts I have not read.
If I Expand Threads and mark a thread as Read or Unread, the view returns to the top of the window. Then I have to scroll and scroll to find where I left off.
Sometimes when I have selected Expand Threads, they stay collapsed and I have to toggle that button several times. When I change pages, threads collapse again.

PLEASE - somebody from Canvas pay attention and stop messing with something that didn't need fixing - or at least make the suggested changes!

[lshulman]

Hmm, I do have many issues with the new format, but the one you note about unread posts and sorting those is NOT a problem I have run into.

1. First: I do still see dark green dots (not black or red dots). Though sometimes they are hard to see if the user profile picture is dark as the dot appears in the upper left corner of the profile picture) (I wonder if the color of the dot depends on what color the institution/school chooses to use? "branding" by school colors?)
2. I see a drop down menu at the top of the discussion where I am able to select to "view" "all" or only "unread" (so you SHOULD be able to view only the unread posts).
3.  My discussion does not jump back to the top after marking a post as "read"
4. I have never run into a problem with "collapse/expand" button not working the first time I hit it.

[wturgeon]

Yes, I reposted that I could see (barely) the dots representing unread posts.  My initial post was incorrect on that count. And the expand button works but you have to reset it every time you go into that forum.  It is the clumbsiness of the redesign and unnecessary complications that really turn me off.  Students in particular have a hard time finding if they posted. 

[barbara_filkins]

Well let's see --- this discontent with discussions has been going for at least year and prior to the production rollout.

I can't get my institution to change to another tool -- they are too cheap -- so Canvas has them exactly where they want them.

In the meantime, those of us who use discussion can't teach -- and my students want the old discussion board back.

Where the hell in this situation is Canvas?

[TamasBalogh]

Hi @barbara_filkins, we are committed to improve Discussions and identified key points to work on. Please share details what you or your students don't like about the redesigned version. 

[matthewthomas]

Hi @TamasBalogh, thanks for asking.

The main issues I have are:

• the constant need to expand threads so I can actually see what's going on
• not having unread comments clearly marked
• the issue with searching returning way more results than actually show on the page
• not having the entire discussion on a single page

[cmuir]

I'll add in that not being able to set the default view for students to a structure that fits with how the instructor is using discussions is making it much harder for students to figure out what's going on.  For me, students should, by default, have the inline view, sorted with oldest first, and with all threads expanded.

It's also still visually difficult to see where particular threads begin and end, and to follow the flow when there are multiple replies in a thread.

[TamasBalogh]

@matthewthomas, @cmuir thank you for sharing your feedback. 
We already released a change to save the sorting and expand/collapse threads preferences for individual users and we are going to release to set the default view for sorting and thread expand soon. You will be able to even lock both for students so they are not able to change their view. 

[JacobHildebrant]

The new format takes me 3X as long to grade discussion boards.  Developers were not thinking about instructors as this new method is slower, and we have to click the next button to see the students' responses instead of listing them together like Canvas used to do.  It is awful.

[lshulman]

This is odd, as I am not seeing any difference in the way Canvas displays a student's posts when in Speed grader. I don't have to "click the next button" and can see ALL the students' posts "listed together" in the Speed Grader.

[TamasBalogh]

@lshulman most probably, your institution hasn't turned on Discussion Checkpoints as this change came with that feature. You can see more information on this here: https://community.canvaslms.com/t5/The-Product-Blog/Addressing-Your-Feedback-on-Recent-Discussion-Ch...

[wturgeon]

Since I/we have no choice I am gradually adjusting to this new format but yes, I think the developers focus too much on the bells and whistles and making procedures more complex, that acknowledging that most students are not as adapt at working on computers and using online resources as everyone likes to think. KISS is not a bad way to go. 

[matthewthomas]

I have tried to can with this new discussion format, but I cannot.

The main issues I have are:

• the constant need to expand threads so I can actually see what's going on
• not having unread comments clearly marked
• the issue with searching returning way more results than actually show on the page
• not having the entire discussion on a single page

I mean, I'll muddle along as best I can, but I think it's time to make an instructional video for my students on expanding the threads when they enter and so on.

[matthewthomas]

An update:

I came in to see if there has been any progress with the things I and others have mentioned. It seems there are things happening with discussion checkpoints, but they don't seem to be enabled at my institution yet anyway.

The one positive change I've noticed in the past several days is that when I go into a discussion, the threads appear to be expanded by default. Aside from that, though, my other concerns remain.

The inability to see which posts are unread is really frustrating. I prefer to see unread responses in context, rather than via the filter, but when I scroll through, I can't tell what's new & the process of scrolling eliminates the ability to fall back on the filter, because they're no longer 'unread', since I scrolled by.

[lshulman]

With regard to your last observation ("they're no longer 'unread', since I scrolled by.")...

There us a course or user level setting that will turn OFF the automatic marking of a post being "read" simply due to having it appear on your screen. I turned this off years ago so I could control the "read" feature manually. It is still functioning for me. Though being one of those one-time-only settings, I forget where to find this toggle on/off check box.

[wturgeon]

Yes, you can control whether the system automatically marks posts as being read simply by scrolling by them (dangerous if you want to read one again) and you can turn it off. That is under Settings on the Discussion tab.

[wturgeon]

I posted this under a different reply but here is what I said: Yes, you can control whether the system automatically marks posts as being read simply by scrolling by them (dangerous if you want to read one again) and you can turn it off. That is under Settings on the Discussion tab.  At least that might solve one of your problems! 🙂

[matthewthomas]

TLDR:

• Automatically switching to 'read' happens much too quickly.
• If a delay could be built into that, it would help immensely.

Thanks to those who mentioned the ability to turn off unread messages automatically being marked 'read' once one has scrolled past them. In general, I actually prefer for it to work that way, but the status is flipping so fast and is barely visible that I may have to end up clicking each entry to mark them as read.

I've been paying close attention as I scroll through discussions in the past week or so, and I think I see where I am having difficulty. The automatic switching to 'read' is happening almost the instant that the post slides onto the screen, however little of it is visible. It's so sensitive that I can be reading a post & the one below it will go 'read' just because a few pixels of it are visible at the bottom of the page. If that switching could be delayed by a few seconds, that would resolve most of my issues with that part of things.

[macalystre]

Also, using the SpeedGrader for these new Discussions is SO terrible.

• is so slow when it does work,
• frequently doesn't take you to the students' replies as it should,
• is VERY inaccessible for people with visual weaknesses or motion sickness with its bouncing/scrolling about, 
• takes so much more clicking to see multiple replies from the same student

Frankly, this whole thing is bad enough, including what others have said, that I won't be using discussion boards any more. 

[JasonAlligood]

Yes, SpeedGrader is impossible to use now. Canvas, please bring back the old design!

[SamGarza1]

Hi @macalystre Thank you for taking the time to leave feedback on this feature. More information on what we're doing about the feedback we're receiving can be found here https://community.canvaslms.com/t5/The-Product-Blog/Addressing-Your-Feedback-on-Recent-Discussion-Ch.... More updates will be coming to the product blog soon.